Carbon Fiber Shafts should be Banned

Minnesota Phat said:
I agree that reintroducing the old product was a good idea.

Similarly, the billiards industry should re-introduce real wood pool cues, and get rid of New Cues. Perhaps there can still be "high tech" tournaments where all the new equipment is allowed, so that people who invested a bunch of money in all the gimmicky equipment don't feel like they were bit too hard.

It wasn't New Coke that helped Coca Cola - it was getting rid of New Coke that helped Coca Cola.
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No, new Coke gave them a reason to eliminate Coke. That is them creating a shortage.

At the same time they got to introduce a hot new product. That created brand hype.

The hype means they didn't lose money on the new product.

When the new product busted (as they knew it would), they reintroduced the
Minnesota Phat said:
If carbon fiber shafts don't provide an advantage, then they're pointless, so there will be no harm in eliminating them, and it will save people from wasting money. If they do provide an advantage, then my point stands.

$300 is just for the shaft, and young people are lower-income than anyone else. Someone scraping by on $8.00/hour or student loans can't necessarily shell out an extra $300 - they often can't even afford dental care, a car, or an apartment.
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Do custom cues provide an advantage over a well maintained house cue? I don't think so. Ban them.

Inlays don't provide an advantage, ban them.
 
MajorMiscue said:
Awesome, huh?
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Past point of dumb obsessive over nothing.

Pool is like most thing skillful competitor is consistent person in money.

Cue, Shaft, Tip I’d just tool that need craftsmen to use to full potential.💡
DeeDeeCues said:
No, new Coke gave them a reason to eliminate Coke. That is them creating a shortage.

At the same time they got to introduce a hot new product. That created brand hype.

The hype means they didn't lose money on the new product.

When the new product busted (as they knew it would), they reintroduced the


Do custom cues provide an advantage over a well maintained house cue? I don't think so. Ban them.

Inlays don't provide an advantage, ban them.
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Ban nothing but the player with skill, will still finish in top of field.

What dose it take to player with 30k Black Bore, only 30k.💰💰💰💰💰
 
DeeDeeCues said:
No, new Coke gave them a reason to eliminate Coke. That is them creating a shortage.

At the same time they got to introduce a hot new product. That created brand hype.

The hype means they didn't lose money on the new product.

When the new product busted (as they knew it would), they reintroduced the
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Where are you getting your information about Coca-Cola's master plan with New Coke?

Among other things, Coca-cola ate $30 million in losses from unused New Coke formula.

Theory One: Coca-Cola had declining market share, conducted market research, found that people preferred New Coke in blind taste tests, and introduced New Coke (which is the official story that pretty much everyone believes).

Theory Two: Coca-Cola engaged in a grand conspiracy that they effectively covered-up to this day.

I like a good conspiracy theory as much as the next one, but I don't see any evidence that would support your theory, whereas there is a lot of evidence that Coca-Cola made a mistake that may have benefited from inadvertently, but was never the plan.
 
DeeDeeCues said:
Do custom cues provide an advantage over a well maintained house cue? I don't think so. Ban them.

Inlays don't provide an advantage, ban them.
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People obviously buy carbon fiber shafts because they provide an advantage. It's not like they'd pay $300+ for nothing. If they are paying $300+ for nothing, then banning them will save people from being fooled into paying for an advantage that doesn't exist.

But it does exist.

Low-deflection shafts have fundamentally changed the game of pool, and no current straight pool record means anything compared to Willie Mosconi unless it was done with a non-LD shaft.
 
Minnesota Phat said:
People obviously buy carbon fiber shafts because they provide an advantage. It's not like they'd pay $300+ for nothing. If they are paying $300+ for nothing, then banning them will save people from being fooled into paying for an advantage that doesn't exist.

But it does exist.

Low-deflection shafts have fundamentally changed the game of pool, and no current straight pool record means anything compared to Willie Mosconi unless it was done with a non-LD shaft.
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Most of those CF shafts have worse LD properties than Predator 314^3 ($339 price just went up), unless you go to very small tip size and then it is close.
I actually believe that some people buy them to fit in. Non warping factor is great if you want to leave it in the car, unfortunately some of those shafts have small wobble, unacceptable. Most of those shafts suck, or have a flaw or two.
I'm planning to get one too, must have better LD than 314^3, tip size 12.5 - 12.9, long pro taper, and sound better than Revo.

The highlighted text must be a joke, did you see the buckets he was shooting into?
 
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Wolven said:
Most of those CF shafts have worse LD properties than Predator 314^3 ($339 price just went up), unless you go to very small tip size. I actually believe that some people buy them to fit in. Non warping factor is great if you want to leave it in the car, unfortunately some of those shafts have small wobble, unacceptable. Most of those shafts suck, or have a flaw or two.
I'm planning to get one too, must have better LD than 314^3, tip size 12.5 - 12.9, long pro taper, and sound better than Revo.

The highlighted text must be a joke, did you see the buckets he was shooting into?
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Why bother? A cf shaft won't make you fit in. To avoid that hollow Revo ping go with a filled core, like a Meucci Carbon Pro, they also have a small white ferrule (3/8") and tip sizes 12.75, 12.5, 12.25 or as small as 11.9mm. 15" pro taper as well but you won't get one for $300.
 
MajorMiscue said:
Why bother? A cf shaft won't make you fit in. To avoid that hollow Revo ping go with a filled core, like a Meucci Carbon Pro, they also have a small white ferrule (3/8") and tip sizes 12.75, 12.5, 12.25 or as small as 11.9mm. 15" pro taper as well but you won't get one for $300.
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I purchased two Predator's recently with CF Revo shafts, neither sounds hollow or pings. They don't sound any different than my wood shaft cues.
 
Minnesota Phat said:
People obviously buy carbon fiber shafts because they provide an advantage. It's not like they'd pay $300+ for nothing. If they are paying $300+ for nothing, then banning them will save people from being fooled into paying for an advantage that doesn't exist.

But it does exist.

Low-deflection shafts have fundamentally changed the game of pool, and no current straight pool record means anything compared to Willie Mosconi unless it was done with a non-LD shaft.
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ridiculous.
 
maha said:
most sports have some regulation on the equipment allowed, so the sport isnt ruined by technical advancements.

whether shafts should be included is a reasonable question.
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True dat.

Don't most tournaments set their own rules? Which ball is racked on the spot, whether jump cues are allowed, etc.? Seems to me a "traditional" tournament could reasonably make wood shafts a requirement. If a CF-shaft player really thought they couldn't play well without CF, well then too bad, they have to skip that tournament. Not the end of the world.

Tennis is an interesting comparison. Clay vs. hard court makes for a very different game. At least one tournament is still played on grass like they used to do in the 1800s. The change from wood rackets is similar to the change from wood shafts in golf. This didn't happen, but a tournament could have continued to require wood racquets. They do make for a different game.

I just use wood because I realize my $1k Jacoby is not the weak point of my game! LOL
 
Minnesota Phat said:
People obviously buy carbon fiber shafts because they provide an advantage. It's not like they'd pay $300+ for nothing. If they are paying $300+ for nothing, then banning them will save people from being fooled into paying for an advantage that doesn't exist.

But it does exist.

Low-deflection shafts have fundamentally changed the game of pool, and no current straight pool record means anything compared to Willie Mosconi unless it was done with a non-LD shaft.
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The more you respond, the more your ignorance shows.
 
coolidge said:
I purchased two Predator's recently with CF Revo shafts, neither sounds hollow or pings. They don't sound any different than my wood shaft cues.
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Are you sure about the phenolic like ping sound being gone? Last week the Revo of my opponent was doing a loud ping with each shot. If this sound is no longer there, well that would be great.
 
buckshotshoey said:
The more you respond, the more your ignorance shows.
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Are you saying that LD shafts aren't very different from solid wood shafts?

The cue ball disagrees with you.

And there's no need to be so rude - I'm already being dogpiled, so you're not really adding anything to the conversation by heaping on another insult.
 
MitchAlsup said:
Some of us would settle for the old ball colors.........
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Heh - yeah, I don't think I'm likely to win my uphill battle, when the industry is making so much money marketing carbon fiber and LD shafts. There may be a very slim chance that someone will hold an "old school" tournament with non-LD shafts, and I think it would be cool if that became a thing. Maybe it could happen if I or someone who shares my opinion organized some minor tournaments, but that would be a tough row to ho due to the fact that CF and LD are now so prevalent in American billiards.

So yeah, I'd be happy to see them return to traditional ball colors. I don't see any recent changes to the game that have had a positive effect, except maybe jump cues, which is ironic because so many people hate jump cues, and I can understand where they're coming from. Maybe I'm wrong about jump cues - I just think it's a challenging, daring, and entertaining type of shot.

I also don't have any strong objections to blue cloth - maybe it does make the balls show up better on screens, and it doesn't really hurt anything. And although it's not really "recent," I think the introduction of women's tournaments was a good idea.

So I guess I don't hate all change, but I hate change that doesn't seem to help the entertainment value of the game, or that makes the game more inaccessible to new players - I personally don't find it all that exciting to watch pros methodically run 50 racks, and making the pockets smaller to account for the increased accuracy of LD shafts makes the game more inaccessible, not more interesting.

Bring the orange 5 ball back! ;)
 
MajorMiscue said:
Why bother? A cf shaft won't make you fit in. To avoid that hollow Revo ping go with a filled core, like a Meucci Carbon Pro, they also have a small white ferrule (3/8") and tip sizes 12.75, 12.5, 12.25 or as small as 11.9mm. 15" pro taper as well but you won't get one for $300.
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Cannot buy Meucci, too many problems with that brand. I have not seen Meucci carbon shafts but heard it is similar in LD to Jacoby black.
Jacoby shaft is worse in LD properties than 314. I would buy Revo 12.9 if there is a new version without the ping.
 
coolidge said:
I purchased a Revo 11.8 last week, no ping. It was a $200 upgrade for the Predator 9K-2 cue I purchased.
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Yes, Predator changed the Revo I'm sure based on the negative feedback they got on their initial hollow cf shaft. According to their literature, the Revo now includes V-TEK Tip Silencer, R2 molecular multi-density foam. They foam filled the shaft just like like Meucci. No mas "ping!". Purchased separately they are $499.
 
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