That’s exactly right RA wasn’t lying about that. I was talking to Johnny about that last night. It’s all in the street now, stuff we knew and didn’t share-all public now.
The bangers are getting better
- Thread starter Willowbrook Wolfy
- Start date
It's pure gold, whatchu talkn boutThat U-Tube was 45 minutes of waisted time. I post like couple of weeks ago it was.
There is what I call the trash talkers who trash bangers, matures, and recreational players in most sports.
There same people are the ones spending most of the money on equipment, table time, food, drinks, sport tickets, etc.
The Pro Player contribute little because they get entree fees paid, equipment gifter, or traded out for endorsements, and are the one with hand out begging.
If the bangers, armatures, and recreational players went away. Follow by exodus of ticket buying sports fans. Most Colleges, Universities, and Pro Sports would disappear.
Something to ponder
There same people are the ones spending most of the money on equipment, table time, food, drinks, sport tickets, etc.
The Pro Player contribute little because they get entree fees paid, equipment gifter, or traded out for endorsements, and are the one with hand out begging.
If the bangers, armatures, and recreational players went away. Follow by exodus of ticket buying sports fans. Most Colleges, Universities, and Pro Sports would disappear.
Something to ponder
Is it possible that you‘re just getting worse? 
MurrayNevada
Well-known member
I'm in my seventies and consider myself an aspiring banger.
Willowbrook Wolfy
Your wushu is weak!
Actually since I left AZ I got a bit better. Up around 10% 9-ball B&R now. Nothing to brag about but definitely a step in the right direction.Is it possible that you‘re just getting worse?
I got friendly with Li'l Joe Villalpando on the net so mostly for grins bought his first two DVD's or maybe he gave them to me. I have bought a few sets and sent on to people and forget what I bought and what I was given.
Anyway, the point is that for seventy dollars and probably three months of 30-40 hour weeks working with the disks somebody could learn what took me five or six thousand hours on the table to learn. Part of me was amazed at how easy so much pool goodness was to come by, and I was a little bit pissed that somebody put all of that on the street for seventy bucks. I wasn't pissed at Joe and I knew if he didn't do it somebody else would, still it was amazing.
A few years or so down the road I watched three young guys take about ten grand out of a pool hall in three days, cell phones and internet be damned! What I found very interesting is that they played with young men's eyes and bodies but an old man's knowledge. Close to the cue ball control of Toby Sweet as an example since we have been talking about him on the forum. I knew I was almost certainly looking at the results of a few years coaching by an old master.
Instructional material and better equipment to play on and with is flattening out the learning curve and performance levels of players today. While it is a source of discord on here, it is fact that it took a different level of skill to bounce around on the road and take in and adjust to the total room conditions when the rooms had all different levels of climate control and lighting. Now you go into a decent room almost anywhere and the conditions are almost the same on most tables.
I played for a few years primarily out of Buffalo's place on Airline near New Orleans. The old AC ran wide open 24-7 in the summer months but still couldn't keep up. Heat and humidity could both get pretty ugly. I formed my opinion of the new generation Diamond tables, red and then blue labels, there. They play pretty consistently from table to table but they banked pretty badly short. Adapted and it worked just fine.
Then I spent a week in Dallas. I got on Diamonds a few places including the Chinese Restaurant Billy I and company were running. The banking on the Diamonds was distinctly longer than on the same blue label nine foot Diamonds in the old low ceilinged poorly climate controlled building Buff had to settle for immediately after Katrina laid waste to the world down there. While it is true some tables bank longer, anyone that couldn't bank on those Diamonds in Dallas couldn't bank on anything. I had to revise my opinion of Diamonds a bit upwards and I already liked them.
Not much difference in the players at the very top. Drop a young Efren, Buddy Hall, a handful more into today's scene and I think they would quickly rise to the same level as they were before in comparison to other players. Take a little longer due to more to learn but I think today's top players would also quickly find their level playing seventy-five years ago, Not much movement at the very top that can't be explained by equipment and conditions.
However, the high C to A level players is where there has been a lot of flattening out. If I spent two weeks on the road just taking what I found I might bump into three to six mid B level or above players. I would probably find over a dozen players the same speed or better today in a few days without particularly looking. The skill level doesn't seem higher but there seems to be a lot more people that are at the mid to upper levels than there was fifty years ago.
The bangers are still bangers, but there are a lot more people above banger level than there used to be. If he had the street smarts to go with the pool a mid "B" level player could make a half decent living on the road, plenty of fish below him. Now there are a lot fewer fish below him and they are all too aware of their standing. I think it was William Claude Dukenfield that said never smarten a chump and never give a sucker an even break. The chumps have been smartened for the most part.
Hu
Ghost of OBC
Well-known member
I tend to agree that the information is much easier to access these days. I grew up with a table at home, and playing at a pretty serious room in Newport News VA. The learning back in the 90s was slow and expensive. Now, with Dr. Dave, Tor, Lil' Chris, et al. you can learn to see the table like someone who has been playing for decades in a long weekend.
Currently, I don't have a table at home, and the only practice I get is a half hour before league, but I'm much more dangerous at 40 with suspect eyes than I was at 17 practicing 20+ hours per week and playing seriously all day Sunday. Unfortunately, the kids have gotten better too. I think it is ultimately good for the game, even if it means I get left behind.
Currently, I don't have a table at home, and the only practice I get is a half hour before league, but I'm much more dangerous at 40 with suspect eyes than I was at 17 practicing 20+ hours per week and playing seriously all day Sunday. Unfortunately, the kids have gotten better too. I think it is ultimately good for the game, even if it means I get left behind.
Age of information.
Doesn’t matter what the subject. It’s no longer required that you need to find mentor/s or long apprenticeships as the sole means of education.
Obviously there’s still a place for mentors and apprenticeships. But, before that was the only way information was passed. So, it took exponentially longer to become educated and skilled.
So, what you’re seeing now is instead of someone being a “banger” for 5-10yrs or what not, they move to a higher level in 3 years.
Combine that with the fact that many “bangers” would move on with other things before that 5-10 year period or some quit all together….
You now have a player pool who’s average skill level is higher than the average skill level 20 years ago.
There’s almost no discipline in which this is not true.
Doesn’t matter what the subject. It’s no longer required that you need to find mentor/s or long apprenticeships as the sole means of education.
Obviously there’s still a place for mentors and apprenticeships. But, before that was the only way information was passed. So, it took exponentially longer to become educated and skilled.
So, what you’re seeing now is instead of someone being a “banger” for 5-10yrs or what not, they move to a higher level in 3 years.
Combine that with the fact that many “bangers” would move on with other things before that 5-10 year period or some quit all together….
You now have a player pool who’s average skill level is higher than the average skill level 20 years ago.
There’s almost no discipline in which this is not true.
After about a decade away I came back last session and played APA, This session, I am playing BCA. To be honest, to me it seems like the game is currently in a lull, in my area at least. Comparatively few new players. And the new league players suck like they always have. That's why we don't finish the matches until midnight. They aren't studying youtube videos. They are having fun. Many of the people that I see are the same people from 10-15 years ago before and *they* have gotten better. And so have I. Overall, the quality seems better but it is the veterans that are driving this improvement, not the young guys with good eyes and old man skills. The young guys would rather drink beer and chase tail. Can't blame them as I was no different LOL. I love this game but my kids who have had a 5x10 pool table in the basement for their entire lives could not care less.
They only game I can think of where people are worse today then in the past?
Horseshoes.
You, and others, have hit on a big part of the reason.... information.
I think we all agree that gambling was a huge part of the game in the past. Most players didnt want to pass on what they have learned, because it would eventually cut into their pockets.
A player needed to "pay his dues" so to speak. That is just code for "keep giving me your money until you learn on your own, or quit altogether".
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A lot of truth to what you say but my main mentor was the owner of a pool hall. When he saw me in there most nights banging away and trying to learn he started coming by and showing me bits and pieces.
I had never seen Jessie help anyone except to protect his equipment from absolute bangers so being fifteen or sixteen I was offended that he lumped me in with that group! After that Jessie never showed "me" another thing. However, once or twice an evening he would come over and show whoever I was playing something, often something they had no hope of executing because I was the only one in my group that was obsessed with pool. Later that session or maybe the next day or two I would use what Jessie had shown. Looking over to the counter I would always see Jessie grinning.
Funny thing, Jessie and I never played a game, not for money or free. The first few years Jessie had too much class to rob a kid. When I might have been able to beat Jessie I had too much respect for him to try to.
While he mentored me freely, Jessie wouldn't give a lesson. He felt that people wanting to pay for lessons wanted to buy his years of experience cheaply. I can still hear his growl, "I'll give them all the lessons they want, for ten dollars a game!" That would have been damned expensive lessons back then.
I kinda came with the place when Jessie bought it. He sold me a lot of beer and never asked for an ID. I don't think he was totally clueless though. He opened a youth pool hall up the road a piece and invited me to come there. I looked for it, never found it though. I left town a couple years and when I came back the pool hall was gone, so was Jessie.
Hu
They switched to cornhole…..
Still no more players running racks on 9-foot tables with 4-1/2” pockets, in my opinion. The biggest change I’ve seen is the bangers in our weekly 9-ball tournament now have high $ cues with carbon fiber shafts and most of them have jump cues they can manage to at least sometimes jump over a ball successfully. Sadly because of this, they don’t learn how to play effective kick safeties, which is often a far better option than a low percentage (to make) jump shot.
As I tried last night to say while whiskey posting, I really think the average age of the league player has gotten older and more mature. People should get marginally better if they do *anything* to improve whether it be equipment, being coachable, or watching matches on the internet. Time alone without some introspection won't do it. The people that stick, love the game and want to get better. There are always a small subset of new players basically cycling through. Some people get better but most don't or eventually lose interest and drop off. I see a lot of guys that I played with when I was a 4 that are now 6 or 7s. Honestly though some of these 6s and 7s make the same mistakes they did 15 years ago.
What I’ve noticed over the last 10-15 years is the endless amount of equipment beginners are buying.
It’s great for the pool vendors and economy. So I won’t knock it, but it’s not a necessity(I guess that’s a bit of a knock). 26 tip tools and a loaded 4X8 case when you have been playing for 8 months is a bit of over kill.
Seems the weaker the player the more things they buy. I’ve seen people in the pool room with fishing tackle boxes full of shit. If they enjoy it, go for it!
I suppose time has made me more of a minimalist in pool. Tip tapper, powder, good piece of chalk, my cue, towel and a 1X2 case and I’m all set. Oh one more thing a couple pieces of wore out 600+ sandpaper which gets used maybe once a month when I’m playing full time.
The tackle box theory is kinda new and not necessary
We have a husband and wife couple who come in here regularly for our weekly tournament, who only took up playing pool a year ago, play without fail in three tournaments a week at three different poolrooms, both still have the lowest ranking possible, both have jump cues, break cues, custom playing cues with carbon fiber shafts, JB cases - easily over $5K in pool equipment between them.
The female is actually improving and getting close to moving up a ranking, the guy is not. Hard to understand, but the important thing is they are absolutely loving it! I have no idea what they did with all their time and $ previous to this past year!
There wasn't any 4 1/2 pockets on a 9 foot table 30 years ago. Not commonly anyway.