The bangers are getting better

vapoolplayer said:
It’s all relative.

It’s an extreme case, but if the overall talent level became high enough, running out a rack here and there could easily be a “banger.”


Also, that’s how you become great. Being “mad” at mistakes.

Winners are *never* satisfied with their performance. It comes off as arrogant when someone plays very well but is visibly unhappy with a shot here and there. When it’s actually just their drive to perform well showing.

When you see people “happy” with their performance that’s when they plateau or start losing.
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It's not relative, a beginner is still a beginner, that never changes. A banger is at or bellow beginner level really. Lets say you have a bag full of numbers, and you dump a whole bunch of higher numbers in the bag, the value of a 0 or a 1 does not change even if the average goes up. A 0 is still a 0 and a 1 is still a 1. Just because there are more OKish players now does not rise up the lower levels, it just means the middle and top have more. It's really a matter of semantics and meanings, but to me the whole term "banger" implies just that, you bang at the ball and then see what happens, there is not much control of speed or aim or stance. Now you can say "compared to me that guy is a banger" as an insult, sure that is one way to use it, but that is not the common definition. It's like the NBA players calling the college players "bangers". Are they? No, they are skilled players. Are they worse than NBA players? Sure. A banger would be someone that misses 8 of 10 shots and trips over their feel going for a layup while wearing jeans and running shoes to play.

There are certain basic skills you need to know to play and then to advance and a "banger" has not learned those yet. They are "pool payers" in only the fact they are at a table holding a cue. To me a "pool player" even a beginner, is someone starting to learn about the proper rules, etiquette, mechanics, aim and position play, things like that. Soon as someone does that they are past the banger stage. Like I said in my other post, a player can still be a "banger" over many years due to stubbornness and lack of effort, ignoring advice, arguing over common knowledge like rules, those can make D players and even some players that can manage to make a few balls still be "bangers". Say someone can run out a few balls but all they ever know is random bar rules, no playing safe, no idea about equipment or difference in tables and cloth, their high mark of play is if you are play "league or tournaments" never mind your skill rating, that is a banger. Heck some people running tournaments I would classify as "bangers" LOL "You can't play in this tournament you are a pro, you play in a league!".
 
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hang-the-9 said:
If a banger is running racks they are no longer a "banger". It's like saying "seems there are a lot more poor people that are rich", once you become rich, you are no longer poor. Once you learn to play, you are no longer a banger. Even someone that is up to getting even 2-3 balls in a row regularly and has an idea of what playing position is, they graduate to the rank of D player, or a "beginner". A banger is just a guy that smacks balls around hoping that every once in a while something goes in. Thus the term "banger", they don't know about pool ,they are likely not interested in pool or at least not much interested in learning or practice to get better. I have seen many lifetime bangers that play in leagues all the time, and they are still lower ranked after years of play. Those are the "stubborn bangers" LOL.

I have noticed that people are getting better faster than they used to, mostly those that try and get some instruction. I know several players that are well ahead of how I played in my first year of playing and I really tried to learn when I started. Funny part those players get mad when they make mistakes, they don't even know how much more there is to learn and practice before they can play properly. Mistakes are normal or we would all be out there playing with the Archers and the Stricklands.
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To me banger includes a wide range of players who have a few characteristics:

(1) They use statements like US bar rules 8-ball is the only “real” form of pool.

(2) Regardless of coordination level, they don’t know tangent lines, draw angles, or pocket speed. Bangers can be excellent potters, but have poor pattern recognition and cue ball control. Playing bar rules this doesn’t haunt them as much as it would in regulated play. A good banger can’t play 2-rail position at all, but is an ok bet to bail themselves out by making a full table bank. In this regard a good banger can absolutely make solid runs, including run-outs, in 8-ball.

(3) Old bangers give bad advice to younger bangers. You’ll hear things like “if you want to get more draw, you have to grip harder”.
 
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hang-the-9 said:
It's not relative, a beginner is still a beginner, that never changes. A banger is at or bellow beginner level really. Lets say you have a bag full of numbers, and you dump a whole bunch of higher numbers in the bag, the value of a 0 or a 1 does not change even if the average goes up. A 0 is still a 0 and a 1 is still a 1. Just because there are more OKish players now does not rise up the lower levels, it just means the middle and top have more. It's really a matter of semantics and meanings, but to me the whole term "banger" implies just that, you bang at the ball and then see what happens, there is not much control of speed or aim or stance. Now you can say "compared to me that guy is a banger" as an insult, sure that is one way to use it, but that is not the common definition. It's like the NBA players calling the college players "bangers". Are they? No, they are skilled players. Are they worse than NBA players? Sure. A banger would be someone that misses 8 of 10 shots and trips over their feel going for a layup while wearing jeans and running shoes to play.

There are certain basic skills you need to know to play and then to advance and a "banger" has not learned those yet. They are "pool payers" in only the fact they are at a table holding a cue. To me a "pool player" even a beginner, is someone starting to learn about the proper rules, etiquette, mechanics, aim and position play, things like that. Soon as someone does that they are past the banger stage. Like I said in my other post, a player can still be a "banger" over many years due to stubbornness and lack of effort, ignoring advice, arguing over common knowledge like rules, those can make D players and even some players that can manage to make a few balls still be "bangers". Say someone can run out a few balls but all they ever know is random bar rules, no playing safe, no idea about equipment or difference in tables and cloth, their high mark of play is if you are play "league or tournaments" never mind your skill rating, that is a banger. Heck some people running tournaments I would classify as "bangers" LOL "You can't play in this tournament you are a pro, you play in a league!".
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don’t know. I kinda think that Color of Money reference someone stated was aimed at people that “bang” the money ball(s) because they can’t usually work the rack. That’s about the speed I consider a “banger”. In 8–Maybe 3-5 ball avg. when they make the first one and have stuff available for pocketing. Usually a bad safe game also. But some bangers are opposite. They are good at safes cause they can’t pocket many.

Not knocking anyone. When I started back again in August I was definitely a banger to start. Maybe still am!
 
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Willowbrook Wolfy said:
I

don’t know. I kinda think that Color of Money reference someone stated was aimed at people that “bang” the money ball(s) because they can’t usually work the rack. That’s about the speed I consider a “banger”. In 8–Maybe 3-5 ball avg. when they make the first one and have stuff available for pocketing. Usually a bad safe game also. But some bangers are opposite. They are good at safes cause they can’t pocket many.

Not knocking anyone. When I started back again in August I was definitely a banger to start. Maybe still am!
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It's just players that don't have a clue about the game, can't make a ball on purpose. Not those that can run balls and play position. Not talking about those that try to make the 9 by hitting things hard, although many bangers when you explain the rules of 9 ball try to make the 9 on every shot LOL In the movie Eddie was talking down to 9 ball players, the secondary "insult" way, not an actual measure of their ability. It's like calling someone an idiot because you are arguing with them vs an actual not smart person with a low IQ. That should explain the difference. An actual player that is a "banger" is just low on skill, just about 0 skill really and has not much idea about the pool world, they can't name any players, they can't name any cue brands, they roll a cue to see if it's warped but never look at the tip, never use chalk, etc... etc...
 
When I think of a banger It’s that average league player that only plays league night and maybe hits some at the bar on the weekends. Doesn’t really take the game seriously
hang-the-9 said:
If a banger is running racks they are no longer a "banger". It's like saying "seems there are a lot more poor people that are rich", once you become rich, you are no longer poor. Once you learn to play, you are no longer a banger. Even someone that is up to getting even 2-3 balls in a row regularly and has an idea of what playing position is, they graduate to the rank of D player, or a "beginner". A banger is just a guy that smacks balls around hoping that every once in a while something goes in. Thus the term "banger", they don't know about pool ,they are likely not interested in pool or at least not much interested in learning or practice to get better. I have seen many lifetime bangers that play in leagues all the time, and they are still lower ranked after years of play. Those are the "stubborn bangers" LOL.

I have noticed that people are getting better faster than they used to, mostly those that try and get some instruction. I know several players that are well ahead of how I played in my first year of playing and I really tried to learn when I started. Funny part those players get mad when they make mistakes, they don't even know how much more there is to learn and practice before they can play properly. Mistakes are normal or we would all be out there playing with the Archers and the Stricklands.
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not really. We are talking about that average player that doesn’t spend a lot of time into the game plays leagues once or twice a week and maybe plays with friends at the bar on a Friday. Doesn’t really spend any time on his fundamentals or learning more about the game. that player used to give you multiple turns at the table and now gets out.
 
ive heard a lot of definitions for banger, it would be interesting to know the actual etymology of the term.

my understanding is that a “banger” is one who often bangs their cue on the table as a result of a bad follow through. its basically a broad way to differentiate between someone who understands a pool stroke or not.

i could be totally wrong. I probably read that on here at some point
 
soyale said:
ive heard a lot of definitions for banger, it would be interesting to know the actual etymology of the term.

my understanding is that a “banger” is one who often bangs their cue on the table as a result of a bad follow through. its basically a broad way to differentiate between someone who understands a pool stroke or not.

i could be totally wrong. I probably read that on here at some point
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I think banger is someone who just bangs balls around without knowing the finer points of the game. Think the group at the local bar who plays bar box 8 ball with bar rules and thinks BIH is cheating. They have no problem purposely scratching (and making it look accidental) when your only ball is in the kitchen. If you do it, they want to start WW3.

They might rule the roost with "last pocket" or "bank the 8" but have no idea how to return a safety. Cowboy pool is often practiced by bangers. Some get good enough to be legendary in their bar, but it's not even a small pond, it's a puddle.
 
boogieman said:
I think banger is someone who just bangs balls around without knowing the finer points of the game. Think the group at the local bar who plays bar box 8 ball with bar rules and thinks BIH is cheating. They have no problem purposely scratching (and making it look accidental) when your only ball is in the kitchen. If you do it, they want to start WW3.

They might rule the roost with "last pocket" or "bank the 8" but have no idea how to return a safety. Cowboy pool is often practiced by bangers. Some get good enough to be legendary in their bar, but it's not even a small pond, it's a puddle.
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sure, thats how we apply it now. im more curious about how the term came to be
 
To me banger could be short for ball banger or barroom banger. Neither one is focused on pool several times a week. Their main focus is drinking, they may whack balls around while they are drinking, they might not. Pool isn't the focus of their excursions.

When somebody starts making weekly trips with the focus on playing pool they are evolving out of banger class. Spending internet time on pool, actively working on making their game better through educational material, these people aren't bangers or won't be long.

If a banger runs a rack it is a fluke with everything wide open or natural breakouts with little effort on their part. They are trying spin or draw, usually too much and not combining draw with spin, follow isn't even in their vocabulary. They don't care much about the finer points of the game. Winning hasn't became important to them.

When a player can see a three or four ball pattern and usually execute it on an open table they are moving into C player class. C class is the largest and widest of all with less than a fourth of C players moving to B class. Maybe half of B will eventually reach A or above. A and Shortstop is blurred a bit with Shortstops and the upper end of A class beating each other on a given day. Likewise, the Shortstop might take down a pro in a local tournament or when the pro comes passing through. Longer races and at Pro venues the Shortstop is unlikely to take the Pro but it does happen now and then mainly because Pro designation is largely in the mind of the player.

My personal stacking of players. Others opinions will certainly vary. When I gambled almost nightly I reached Shortstop level. Nobody had to like a single session with me playing in my usual haunts. I could certainly be beaten, I could win too.

Hu
 
boogieman said:
rule the roost with "last pocket" or "bank the 8"
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I hate those games. Are these people running so many racks it got boring so they had to introduce some weirdness to make it a challenge? No, they are not.
Justaneng said:
You’ll hear things like “if you want to get more draw, you have to grip harder”
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Ironically, this works for me. I typically grip pretty loose but was unconsciously tightening my grip when hitting with pace. Starting with a firmer grip, the cue does no shift as much if my grip tightens. Not exactly a solution, more of a mitigation.
 
soyale said:
ive heard a lot of definitions for banger, it would be interesting to know the actual etymology of the term.

my understanding is that a “banger” is one who often bangs their cue on the table as a result of a bad follow through. its basically a broad way to differentiate between someone who understands a pool stroke or not.

i could be totally wrong. I probably read that on here at some point
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I can't say that I have ever heard the term banger due to how they cue hits the table, only that they randomly bang the balls around the table without thought of position or proper aiming just watching the balls roll around and see where they land.
 
According to the Mike Shamos Encyclopedia of Billiards:

BANGER (colloquially) 1. An unskilled player, one who does little more than ‘bang’ the balls around. 2. A player who hits the balls hard, without care for position.’

My interpretation is a player who plays slop or wishes to luck everything, which would have been the vast majority of casual players 100 years ago. It’s no wonder 14.1 became the game of choice for tournaments. Doubt there were ever professional Kelly Pool tournaments.

Meanwhile the crazy 8 Ball rules (last pocket, bank the 8, 1 & 15 in the sides, or just simply CALLING the 8) likely devised to hinder and call out the bangers of yore. I can hear it now, “See Jim, I can sink a ball where I intended therefore I am better than you.”

Referring to 9 Ball as a game for bangers in 80s billiard cinema seems legitimate; it’s a game that can be sold to a lesser skilled opponent where the rules are simple and chance to win purely by slop is appealing.

The 21st century banger upholds the Mike Shamos definition, there’s just less of them. Presently anyone who wants to actually learn the game will find the road from banger to low C much faster.
 
hang-the-9 said:
If a banger is running racks they are no longer a "banger". It's like saying "seems there are a lot more poor people that are rich", once you become rich, you are no longer poor. Once you learn to play, you are no longer a banger. Even someone that is up to getting even 2-3 balls in a row regularly and has an idea of what playing position is, they graduate to the rank of D player, or a "beginner". A banger is just a guy that smacks balls around hoping that every once in a while something goes in. Thus the term "banger", they don't know about pool ,they are likely not interested in pool or at least not much interested in learning or practice to get better. I have seen many lifetime bangers that play in leagues all the time, and they are still lower ranked after years of play. Those are the "stubborn bangers" LOL.

I have noticed that people are getting better faster than they used to, mostly those that try and get some instruction. I know several players that are well ahead of how I played in my first year of playing and I really tried to learn when I started. Funny part those players get mad when they make mistakes, they don't even know how much more there is to learn and practice before they can play properly. Mistakes are normal or we would all be out there playing with the Archers and the Stricklands.
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Trust me it’s possible to be rich & poor at the same time. It’s a hell of a trap and not comfortable.

Great post!!

Best
Fatboy 😃
 
It's absolutely absurd nowadays.

I'm giving 10-7 to some guy and he hits this crazy ass shot perfectly and it's like, you have to say to yourself, "Well, sure. Everyone knows and can shoot that shot nowadays." You have to just shake your head... and adjust the spot ;-)

Lou Figueroa
 
iusedtoberich said:
Huh? Have you tried to hire anyone recently? People can't even write an email with a capital letter and a period when enquiring about a job.
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THAT is effect that the overall lowering of standards/rounding off the corners that we've collectively done as a society. We have lowered the barriers of entry on so much. Look at the way people dress getting on an airplane for the past decade.
 
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