Hitting 1/2 Tip to the Left on Center Ball Shots, Should I Fix My Stroke or Adapt?

[stockbob55]

FranCrimi said:
This is great that you did this. Here are 5 screenshots that I took of your stroke in sequence. I was never a fan of opening and closing your grip hand when you stroke. You're not alone. Many players do it, particularly snooker players. This is why I don't recommend it.

Thanks for taking a look and for the screenshots Fran. What is it that you see in particular? It looks to me that my forearm is moving out to the right as I pull the cue back which would cause the tip to move to the left. Is that what you are seeing?

FYI ... I do just let my fingers open naturally on the backswing to keep the cue level, but its not a deliberate motion.

 

[stockbob55]

Watch your head position with care, your head bobs up and down on the backstroke/forward stroke. I'd recommend you set your head a bit higher so it's not interfering with your flowing motion.

Good observation....I have been working on my head movement, its much better than it used to be, work in progress.

 

[bbb]

The hand and fingers will naturally change position slightly on the cue as your arm moves through. What I don't recommend is intentionally opening and closing the hand as part of the arm swing unless it's right at impact to snap the cue for a particular type of shot, like where you have to shoot with a very short swing, but need some power. But other than that, like, to do it in the back of the swing --- it's not necessary.

thanks alot for your reply
i appreciate it
also you are just about the only qualified instructor who posts on a regular basis.
i learn alot from you.....

 

[FranCrimi]

Thanks for taking a look and for the screenshots Fran. What is it that you see in particular? It looks to me that my forearm is moving out to the right as I pull the cue back which would cause the tip to move to the left. Is that what you are seeing?

FYI ... I do just let my fingers open naturally on the backswing to keep the cue level, but its not a deliberate motion.

Yes, I guess you could consider it a way of rolling the cue in your hand to keep it level. I'm still not a fan. If I want to level the cue before impact, then I'd just drop my elbow. I'd rather do the work with my arm than my hand. Anyway, I think there's some change in your wrist position with the open and closing of your hand. There is also another issue as you noticed with your arm pulling out to the side. You do seem to be crowding your arm swing a bit with your torso, so that could be the reason.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

Have you confirmed that it's not a sighting issue (looks centered but isn't)?

pj
chgo

 

[Wolven]

Yes, I guess you could consider it a way of rolling the cue in your hand to keep it level. I'm still not a fan. If I want to level the cue before impact, then I'd just drop my elbow. I'd rather do the work with my arm than my hand. Anyway, I think there's some change in your wrist position with the open and closing of your hand. There is also another issue as you noticed with your arm pulling out to the side. You do seem to be crowding your arm swing a bit with your torso, so that could be the reason.

This is highly unusual for a coach on here to talk about an elbow drop.
Cool.

 

[stockbob55]

Have you confirmed that it's not a sighting issue (looks centered but isn't)?

I am pretty sure that I am aiming correctly in the center, but I could be wrong of course.
I have one of those training balls and when I set it up square and aim dead center I always get a chalk mark slightly to the left.
If I shoot the cue ball up and down over the spots it always goes to the left.
I can get it to come back straight by aiming 1/2 tip to the right but as I said in the 1st post I don't know if that is a good option.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

I am pretty sure that I am aiming correctly in the center, but I could be wrong of course.
I have one of those training balls and when I set it up square and aim dead center I always get a chalk mark slightly to the left.
If I shoot the cue ball up and down over the spots it always goes to the left.
I can get it to come back straight by aiming 1/2 tip to the right but as I said in the 1st post I don't know if that is a good option.

If there is a sighting issue, it could be that your stick is slightly too far to the right under your eyes. If you want to check it out, here's a good resource.

pj
chgo

Vision Center - Dr. Dave Pool Info

Answers to frequently-asked questions about how to find your personal 'vision center' in pool.

billiards.colostate.edu

 

[boogieman]

The hand and fingers will naturally change position slightly on the cue as your arm moves through. What I don't recommend is intentionally opening and closing the hand as part of the arm swing unless it's right at impact to snap the cue for a particular type of shot, like where you have to shoot with a very short swing, but need some power. But other than that, like, to do it in the back of the swing --- it's not necessary.

Focusing on the ring finger in your grip hand is the magic pill, if such a thing exists... Feel the ring finger, every shot is the same, even jump shots start at this baseline. If the ring finger leads, you feel your final check.

 

[boogieman]

I am pretty sure that I am aiming correctly in the center, but I could be wrong of course.
I have one of those training balls and when I set it up square and aim dead center I always get a chalk mark slightly to the left.
If I shoot the cue ball up and down over the spots it always goes to the left.
I can get it to come back straight by aiming 1/2 tip to the right but as I said in the 1st post I don't know if that is a good option.

If you're feeling experimental... pay attention to the center of the CB and the edge of the OB for cuts. Stay down and watch where the OB splits the pocket. Once you figure that out, do the same and watch the CB. Do not get up until the balls are done moving. I am not an instructor.

When starting this, go stand behind the OB and the pocket. Take a deep stretch there if needed. Take your time. It takes training to see it quick., but as long as you see where it splits the actual pocket... go for gold. Shoot it in. Stay down and watch it.

 

[FranCrimi]

Focusing on the ring finger in your grip hand is the magic pill, if such a thing exists... Feel the ring finger, every shot is the same, even jump shots start at this baseline. If the ring finger leads, you feel your final check.

Well, yes, the last three fingers, actually, but that won't go over too well with players who prefer to grip with the front two fingers. You can't tell them they're wrong because many players are successful that way. But they do have the potential for things to go wrong as opposed to gripping with the back portion of the hand. I call the front two fingers, the twisting fingers.

 

[Wolven]

Well, yes, the last three fingers, actually, but that won't go over too well with players who prefer to grip with the front two fingers. You can't tell them they're wrong because many players are successful that way. But they do have the potential for things to go wrong as opposed to gripping with the back portion of the hand. I call the front two fingers, the twisting fingers.

What do you think of the grip where 3rd finger is the key, and the first finger is not important? He starts showing it about 2:50 into the video.

 

[Zerksies]

Fix the flaw in your stroke

 

[FranCrimi]

What do you think of the grip where 3rd finger is the key, and the first finger is not important? He starts showing it about 2:50 into the video.

There are different types of releases. One type is complete removal of the fingers from the cue. Another type is release of pressure while keeping the fingers on the cue.

Regardless of where he claims the correct pressure points as the cue moves backwards and forwards, he's allowing the back three to be completely removed from the cue and he's snapping his hand closed during the stroke. I don't see how grabbing the cue during the forward motion is essential to good timing, as he says.

I start and finish with the pressure on the back three, and while the pressure points roll through those three during the back stroke and forward motion, they never leave the cue. I can't think of any specific purpose for the front two, so I keep them out of the way and relaxed on the cue from start to finish. In fact, when players I work with struggle with twisting the cue, I give them an exercise that I created which is to shoot with the first two completely off the cue from start to finish. Of course, it feels terrible but they're shocked as to how accurate they suddenly are. Then we work on gradually putting them back on the cue, but with practically no pressure at all so that the back three do the work and twisting is no longer a part of their stroke.

 

[bbb]

There are different types of releases. One type is complete removal of the fingers from the cue. Another type is release of pressure while keeping the fingers on the cue.

Regardless of where he claims the correct pressure points as the cue moves backwards and forwards, he's allowing the back three to be completely removed from the cue and he's snapping his hand closed during the stroke. I don't see how grabbing the cue during the forward motion is essential to good timing, as he says.

I start and finish with the pressure on the back three, and while the pressure points roll through those three during the back stroke and forward motion, they never leave the cue. I can't think of any specific purpose for the front two, so I keep them out of the way and relaxed on the cue from start to finish. In fact, when players I work with struggle with twisting the cue, I give them an exercise that I created which is to shoot with the first two completely off the cue from start to finish. Of course, it feels terrible but they're shocked as to how accurate they suddenly are. Then we work on gradually putting them back on the cue, but with practically no pressure at all so that the back three do the work and twisting is no longer a part of their stroke.

My house pro mark coats had me hold a piece of chalk with my thumb and index finger to help solve some grip issues of mine

 

[FranCrimi]

My house pro mark coats had me hold a piece of chalk with my thumb and index finger to help solve some grip issues of mine

Sounds like he's trying to get you to lighten up your grip with those first two.

 

[bbb]

Sounds like he's trying to get you to lighten up your grip with those first two.

Yes
That also made the middle/ring finger cradle the cue which if i understand you correctly you prefer
I still today use my middle/ ring finger primarily to cradle the cue
The index finger just comes along for the ride

 

[stockbob55]

There are different types of releases. One type is complete removal of the fingers from the cue. Another type is release of pressure while keeping the fingers on the cue.

Regardless of where he claims the correct pressure points as the cue moves backwards and forwards, he's allowing the back three to be completely removed from the cue and he's snapping his hand closed during the stroke. I don't see how grabbing the cue during the forward motion is essential to good timing, as he says.

I start and finish with the pressure on the back three, and while the pressure points roll through those three during the back stroke and forward motion, they never leave the cue. I can't think of any specific purpose for the front two, so I keep them out of the way and relaxed on the cue from start to finish. In fact, when players I work with struggle with twisting the cue, I give them an exercise that I created which is to shoot with the first two completely off the cue from start to finish. Of course, it feels terrible but they're shocked as to how accurate they suddenly are. Then we work on gradually putting them back on the cue, but with practically no pressure at all so that the back three do the work and twisting is no longer a part of their stroke.

So what would you recommend as a course of action to correct the flaw in my stroke?
As a side note I started playing snooker with a short cue, I used to hold my cue with my back 3 fingers. My forearm was forward of the 90 degree position at ball address and I dropped my elbow a lot more.

 

[FranCrimi]

So what would you recommend as a course of action to correct the flaw in my stroke?
As a side note I started playing snooker with a short cue, I used to hold my cue with my back 3 fingers. My forearm was forward of the 90 degree position at ball address and I dropped my elbow a lot more.

I'm still not sure what the source of your problem is so I think it's going to take a process of elimination. You could possibly experiment with a slight stance adjustment to the left a bit to allow more room for your arm to swing through. That would be a solution if the cause of your issue is that you're crowding the line of the shot. After that, you might consider adjustments to your grip if the issue isn't solved with the stance adjustment. It may be one or the other or a combination of both.

 

[dquarasr]

Not an instructor.

Curious: do you have this problem using a closed bridge?