Three point break rule.................

[MitchAlsup]

I’m not a fan of any break style where you can strive for a specific layout of balls on the table and repeatedly achieve that basic layout.

But that is exactly what a good 14.1 break attempts to do.

 

[buckshotshoey]

It's those damn template racks that are ruining the game.
This rule wouldn't exist with the use of standard triangle racks--- good luck winning many matches soft-breaking when they're used.
Template racks make pool too easy. I miss the days of clusters, random spreads, and tuff runouts.........
Template rack pool is boring af to watch.

Agreed. Some aspects of the game should be random.

It seems to me the easiest way to solve this problem is to simply use a speed gun on the break, they used them all the time in baseball on the pitcher’s speed on their pitches.

I’ve read somewhere hard breakers like a Tony Ellen would have a break speed of something like 30 MPG! Now not everyone could reasonably expected to break like Tony did so maybe they could come with something between Cory and Tony’s would be appropriate maybe 21 MPG or something like that. This would also elimate the need for any 3 point rule because even with a loose rack the speed gun would qualify the speed of the break regardless of the results of a loose or tight rack.

Makes sense to me,,,

I realize you are talking about pros here, but can you hit a cue ball 21 MPH? I did once. My average break is 18 mph and the object balls are all over the place. 18 mph is a pretty hard break.

 

[Woodshaft]

You'd think by now that the pros would realize that you shouldn't be "cut breaking" a template rack, on slow cloth, especially when the 3-point rule is in affect.
Albin figured this out just started blasting them hard, straight on in the Euro that he just won.

 

[MattPoland]

But that is exactly what a good 14.1 break attempts to do.

14.1 is a different game. The rules and outcomes that work for one game don’t exactly translate to the spirit of another game. 14.1 is a safety break. If safety breaks become a thing in 9-ball, you can guarantee the rules will adjust to stop that. 9-ball is meant to be an offensive game.

But the break in 9-ball isn’t meant to be a trick shot for a guaranteed Cosmo layout. The Corey Deuel soft break of two decades ago have established the industry’s disdain for that approach.

Time has passed since that era and the challenges we are addressing today is just the evolution of those same gaffe techniques. We know what doesn’t work and the naive promoters keep going back to it. And not without consequences. To me the Asian 9-ball Open is virtually unwatchable. I wouldn’t suggest looking to 14.1 to try to justify that.

 

[MattPoland]

It's those damn template racks that are ruining the game.
This rule wouldn't exist with the use of standard triangle racks--- good luck winning many matches soft-breaking when they're used.
Template racks make pool too easy. I miss the days of clusters, random spreads, and tuff runouts.........
Template rack pool is boring af to watch.

I hear you but racksmiths intentionally wiring the wing ball with a gap was a widespread problem at one point. I assume we all remember this famous photo.

 

[L.S. Dennis]

Agreed. Some aspects of the game should be random.

I realize you are talking about pros here, but can you hit a cue ball 21 MPH? I did once. My average break is 18 mph and the object balls are all over the place. 18 mph is a pretty hard break.

The 21 mph was just a random guess, maybe 16 or 18 mph would more appropriate. The concept is what I was suggesting.

 

[Woodshaft]

I hear you but racksmiths intentionally wiring the wing ball with a gap was a widespread problem at one point. I assume we all remember this famous photo.

The wing ball goes in just as much with the template lol.
I just feel that after using the triangle for generations, the template rack takes the randomness out of the game.
I shoot at a pretty decent level and I definitely B&R more using a template rack.
9-ball with a template rack is just too easy for pros.
I'd MUCH rather play and watch 10-ball, even with a template rack

 

[MattPoland]

The wing ball goes in just as much with the template lol.
I just feel that after using the triangle for generations, the template rack takes the randomness out of the game.
I shoot at a pretty decent level and I definitely B&R more using a template rack.
9-ball with a template rack is just too easy for pros.
I'd MUCH rather play and watch 10-ball, even with a template rack

I know where you’re coming from. But we have to remember that hand rack at the amateur level is a different context than the pro level.

You can’t have refs racking the entire event for a 128 or 256 player field. And professional players racking for each other is at serious risk for unscrupulous slug racking. Professionals racking for themselves is a racksmith festival.

It’s pretty clear that no matter what happens there needs to be 9 on the spot and a small break box for the pros. That does eliminate the wing ball. After that it may be a debate if the template or hand rack is better. So far the European Open painted a clear picture the template was a reasonable equalizer and with a ref hand racking it was too difficult.

As far as I’m concerned I think we’ve found something that might not be perfect but has shown the most promise out of every permutation that’s been tried so far. Maybe the template won’t be so bad after all.

 

[buckshotshoey]

There are many experienced rackers right here on AZ. Many of you here freely admit that! Lol. How about getting volunteers to rack at tournaments? The pay off could be free admission to the entire tournament and you dont just watch, you get involved.

 

[MitchAlsup]

14.1 is a different game.

You said "any break style"
You said nothing about restricting your statement to any particular game.

 

[Guy Manges]

There's that pile...

 

[MattPoland]

You said "any break style"
You said nothing about restricting your statement to any particular game.

Then let me amend that now. I’m talking about 9-ball. I would’ve assumed that was clear from the context of the thread being “three point rule…” and to my knowledge no other games having a three point rule. But I don’t mind clarifying.

 

[TrxR]

Then let me amend that now. I’m talking about 9-ball. I would’ve assumed that was clear from the context of the thread being “three point rule…” and to my knowledge no other games having a three point rule. But I don’t mind clarifying.

Isn't there a 8 ball break rule about three balls having to hit a rail or be pocketed to be a legal break? I'm trying to remember what rules set that was in.

 

[MattPoland]

Isn't there a 8 ball break rule about three balls having to hit a rail or be pocketed to be a legal break? I'm trying to remember what rules set that was in.

We’re really leaning into this tangent.

All games have legal break criteria. Both 9-ball and 8-ball require four balls to be driven to a rail if an object ball isn’t pocketed.

The “3-point rule” only pertains to 9-ball and is distinct from and supplementary to any requirments for balls to be driven to a rail.

The “ 3-point rule” was established originally to prohibit the Corey Deuel style of soft break that became prevalent 20 years ago with the Sardo rack. It stayed relevant with the template racks. But time has marched on, players adapted and evolved, and the 2022 version of the sissy soft break has evolved too as a cut break. And that’s not really all that new. But it is that evolution of the softest break allowed that still controls the layout of the table in a predictable, repeatable spread for an easy runout.

 

[justnum]

For a break what if only balls pocketed in the corner pockets by the breaking side of the table count and other balls are spotted.

The rule has to be easy to implement and encourage high power break shots.

 

[straightline]

You could always play 9 and 10 ball out of a 15 ball rack.

 

[billlaur]

3 point rule what a joke, its like flipping a coin to see who wins its got nothing to do with games being played..

 

[straightline]

3 point rule what a joke, its like flipping a coin to see who wins its got nothing to do with games being played..

Competition require quantification. Otherwise it's an artistic endeavor.

 

[Maniac]

You could always play 9 and 10 ball out of a 15 ball rack.

Why not play rotation with the 15-ball the money ball (NOT 15-ball rotation rules, but rather rotation like 10-ball but with all 15 balls). You'd have to shorten the races to allow that the games/matches will be longer.

If this were happening now, we wouldn't need to even have this 3-point rule discussion!

 

[VarmintKong]

The problem is inherent in the game (of 9-ball)

I must say that I’m intrigued please elabborate.