I’m on pace with that. I figure in 60 more years I should be able to qualify myself…..
Mosconi Cup Stats -- Career Records for Players on 2022 Teams
- Thread starter AtLarge
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this year shane is going in as the reigning world champion, so that may be a difference. actually if my math is correct this USA team has more world championship trophies than the euro team (4 to 3)
Guy Manges
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Perhaps in the next 60 years, someone will convince me that teamwork is critical at the Mosconi, but I doubt it. Does anyone think that back when the US was dominating the Mosconi, it was because of good teamwork? The Mosconi is won with skills, not with teamwork.I’m on pace with that. I figure in 60 more years I should be able to qualify myself…..
I think we have good teamwork on Team USA already, but we need to play well. Make shots, not excuses. Kumbaya be damned!
Getting a contribution from many different players does not, in and of itself, qualify as teamwork. Winning lies in superior execution, which lies in superior preparation and practice, not in team bonding.
Team sports for comparison make sense for this thread.
In cross country racing runners finish individually and the win is decided by points. Team Pool is not that independent.
A relay race is a team sport with individual skills and the critical baton pass. This is more like pool because table leave is a pass. When the team knows each others strengths and faults then it can be planned around.
A football analogy works well. SVB is offensive dominant shooting, similar to a running offense in football. Its taxing to go forward and wear and tear is high.
SVB likely expects every team member to hit 100% on any open shot. This is counter intuitive to fargorating. Fargo rates mean expect less than 100% performance means choosing plays the team has the best chance at being successful with.
In cross country racing runners finish individually and the win is decided by points. Team Pool is not that independent.
A relay race is a team sport with individual skills and the critical baton pass. This is more like pool because table leave is a pass. When the team knows each others strengths and faults then it can be planned around.
A football analogy works well. SVB is offensive dominant shooting, similar to a running offense in football. Its taxing to go forward and wear and tear is high.
SVB likely expects every team member to hit 100% on any open shot. This is counter intuitive to fargorating. Fargo rates mean expect less than 100% performance means choosing plays the team has the best chance at being successful with.
Let's compare Shane's Cup performance with that of the other players on the team during the Van Boening era. Shane has played in the Mosconi Cup for 15 years now, 2007-2021.
Team USA's record in matches won and lost over that 15-year period:
singles -- 49-87 (winning percentage of 36.0%)
doubles -- 44-61 (41.9%)
teams -- 7-8 (46.7%)
total -- 100-156 (39.1%)
Shane's record over that 15-year period:
singles -- 16-25 (39.0%)
doubles -- 17-23 (42.5%)
teams -- 7-8 (46.7%)
total -- 40-56 (41.7%)
Team USA's match record over that 15-year period excluding Shane's matches:
singles -- 33-62 (34.7%)
doubles -- 27-38 (41.5%)
So, looking at matches in which Shane has played vs. those in which he did not play, Shane has done a little better than his teammates in singles (39% vs. 35%) and pretty much the same in doubles (42.5% vs. 41.5%).If we count a full point for a win or loss in singles matches, half a point for a win or loss in doubles matches, and one-fifth of a point for a win or loss in the teams matches, we have a measure of the overall contribution of a player to the match scores:
Team USA's match record 2007-2021 -- 100-156 (39.1% winning percentage)
Shane's contribution -- 25.9-38.1 (40.5%)
Contribution of other team members -- 74.1-117.9 (38.6%)
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Woodshaft
Do what works for YOU!
While I do agree with this on paper, the human factor of "respecting and being comfortable" with your partner plays a big part on both player's ability to play their best when teamed up.
If one (or both) of the players is uncomfortable with the other player-- IN ANY WAY-- the players will underperform.
I know this from much doubles experience--- both in tourney play and in the green room.
You’ve got to throw out his MC history. Not having our clearly best player on the team (by a wide margin) would make absolutely no sense.
You absolutely 100% DO NOT throw out his MC cup record, this is completely different than individual. I wish people like you would bet $1,000+ per match involving Shane in the MC cup.
Having a player that wins 40% of his matches is what makes no sense, and it certainly doesn't make any dollars
You do understand that losing is losing right? You are also comparing him to all teammates on average not individual teammates.
BTW, thanks for all you do with stats etc.
I can’t imagine the kind of uproar you’d have if Shane wasn’t selected for the team in comparison to individuals like yourself criticizing that he was selected.
plus he was often matched against filler, shaw or whoever was the hottest player on the euro team that year.
i get some of the criticism though, it's obviously not his favorite arena and he tends to show negativity when it's not going his way. skyler is a better mosconi player in that regard
I'm only interested in winning, and to this point Shane has proven less than stellar.
Believe me, I get it, but math doesn't lie
Regardless of his MC record, he is still the favorite against any of the Euro players he plays except for Filler, whereas any other US player is an underdog matched up against any of the other Euro players.
jeremy made a time foul, thinking having the cue ball cleaned would pause the shot clock, maybe that's what you're referring to