Mosconi Cup Stats -- Career Records for Players on 2022 Teams

[AtLarge]

Again this year, I am posting the career Mosconi-Cup records of this year's players. The combined records for each player were compiled from the yearly match results shown on Wikipedia, from matchroompool.com archives, and from my own records The career records of everyone who has ever played on either team can be found here: https://forums.azbilliards.com/thre...er-played-on-either-team.464772/#post-6028857

Team USA will enter the event with a combined 41 years of Cup experience, with 71% (29 years) of that in Van Boening and Strickland. Team Europe has 18 years of Cup experience, with Shaw the most experienced at 6 years. The only rookie this year is on Team Europe.

Method 1. Under this method, I counted a full win or loss for each player in each match (i.e., not splitting the point into fifths for teams matches or halves for doubles matches). So these numbers essentially answer the question: "In how many winning and losing matches has each player been involved?" [Note that a record like 15-19 means 15 wins and 19 losses, not 15 wins out of 19 matches.]

Team USA​

• Shane Van Boening (15 yrs. -- 2007-2021) ..... 16-25 singles, 17-23 doubles, 7-8 teams, 40-56 total (winning percentage of 42%)​

• Earl Strickland (14 yrs. -- 1996-2008, 2013) ..... 14-12 singles, 24-12 doubles, 2-0 trebles, 3-2 teams, 43-26 total (62%)​

• Skyler Woodward (7 yrs. -- 2015-2021) ..... 7-5 singles, 9-14 doubles, 4-3 teams, 20-22 total (48%)​

• Tyler Styer (3 yrs. -- 2018-2019, 2021) ..... 2-3 singles, 5-3 doubles, 2-1 teams, 9-7 total (56%)​

• Oscar Dominguez (2 yrs. -- 2009, 2017) ..... 0-3 singles, 3-3 doubles, 1-1 teams, 4-7 total (36%)​

​

• Team USA Total (41 yrs.) ..... 39-48 singles, 58-55 doubles, 2-0 trebles, 17-15 teams, 116-118 total (50%)​

​

Team Europe​

• Jayson Shaw (6 yrs. -- 2016-2021) ..... 10-6 singles, 11-5 doubles, 3-3 teams, 24-14 total (63%)​

• Albin Ouschan (5 yrs. -- 2015-2016, 2018, 2020-2021) ..... 4-3 singles, 11-5 doubles, 2-3 teams, 17-11 total (61%)​

• Joshua Filler (4 yrs. -- 2017, 2019-2021) ..... 8-2 singles, 7-2 doubles, 1-3 teams, 16-7 total (70%)​

• David Alcaide (3 yrs. -- 2006, 2017, 2021) ..... 3-1 singles, 6-2 doubles, 1-1 trebles, 1-3 teams, 11-7 total (61%)​

• Francisco Sanchez-Ruiz (0 yrs. -- rookie)​

​

• Team Europe Total (18 yrs.) ..... 25-12 singles, 35-14 doubles, 1-1 trebles, 7-12 teams, 68-39 total (64%)​

NOTE: On their Mosconi Cup website, Matchroom currently (Nov. 13)) has posted the Cup career matches played and matches won for each of this year's players. My counts for these are the same as Matchroom's for 5 of the players (Van Boening, Strickland, Dominguez, Ouschan, and Filler), but not for the other 4 veterans (Woodward, Styer, Shaw, and Alcaide). I believe the Matchroom numbers for those 4 players are wrong.

Method 2. Another way of looking at the records is to count a full point for each player in a singles win or loss, half a point for each player in a doubles win or loss, one-third of a point for each player in a trebles win or loss, and one-fifth (one-sixth in 2006) of a point for each player in a team win or loss. So the following numbers essentially answer the question: "What numerical contribution has each player made to the overall Mosconi Cup match scores?"

Team USA​

• Shane Van Boening (15 yrs.) ..... 16-25 singles, 8.5-11.5 doubles, 1.4-1.6 teams, 25.9-38.1 total (winning percentage of 40%)​

• Earl Strickland (14 yrs.) ..... 14-12 singles, 12-6 doubles, 0.7-0 trebles, 0.5-0.4 teams, 27.2-18.4 total (60%)​

• Skyler Woodward (7 yrs.) ..... 7-5 singles, 4.5-7 doubles, 0.8-0.6 teams, 12.3-12.6 total (49%)​

• Tyler Styer (3 yrs.) ..... 2-3 singles, 2.5-1.5 doubles, 0.4-0.2 teams, 4.9-4.7 total (51%)​

• Oscar Dominguez (2 yrs.) ..... 0-3 singles, 1.5-1.5 doubles, 0.2-0.2 teams, 1.7-4.7 total (27%)​

​

• Team USA Total ..... 39-48 singles, 29-27.5 doubles, 0.7-0 trebles, 3.3-3.0 teams, 72.0-78.5 total (48%)​

​

Team Europe​

• Jayson Shaw (6 yrs. -- 2016-2021) ..... 10-6 singles, 5.5-2.5 doubles, 0.6-0.6 teams, 16.1-9.1 total (64%)​

• Albin Ouschan (5 yrs. -- 2015-2016, 2018, 2020-2021) ..... 4-3 singles, 5.5-2.5 doubles, 0.4-0.6 teams, 9.9-6.1 total (62%)​

• Joshua Filler (4 yrs. -- 2017, 2019-2021) ..... 8-2 singles, 3.5-1 doubles, 0.2-0.6 teams, 11.7-3.6 total (76%)​

• David Alcaide (3 yrs. -- 2006, 2017, 2021) ..... 3-1 singles, 3-1 doubles, 0.3-0.3 trebles, 0.2-0.5 teams, 6.5-2.9 total (70%)​

• Francisco Sanchez-Ruiz (0 yrs. -- rookie)​

​

• Team Europe Total ..... 25-12 singles, 17.5-7 doubles, 0.3-0.3 trebles, 1.4-2.3 teams, 44.2-21.7 total (67%)​

 

[AtLarge]

Current (Nov. 13) FargoRates for this year's Cup players:

Team USA

Van Boening -- 832​

Woodward -- 802​

Dominguez -- 779​

Strickland -- 777​

Styer -- 762​

​

Team USA Mean -- 790.4​

Team Europe

Filler -- 838​

Sanchez-Ruiz -- 829​

Shaw -- 825​

Ouschan -- 822​

Alcaide -- 804​

​

Team Europe Mean -- 823.6​

Rating gap between team means -- 33.2

Obviously, the Cup will not be played with Team Europe having a 33-point FargoRate advantage in every match. But, just for fun:

Probability of higher-rated player winning a single game if the rating gap is 33 points -- 56%
Prob. of higher-rated player winning a race to 5 if the rating gap is 33 pts. -- 64%
Prob. of winning a race to 11 matches if your prob. of winning each match is 64% -- 91%

 

[tomatoshooter]

Current (Nov. 13) FargoRates for this year's Cup players:

Team USA

Van Boening -- 832​

Woodward -- 802​

Dominguez -- 779​

Strickland -- 777​

Styer -- 762​

​

Team USA Mean -- 790.4​

Team Europe

Filler -- 838​

Sanchez-Ruiz -- 829​

Shaw -- 825​

Ouschan -- 822​

Alcaide -- 804​

​

Team Europe Mean -- 823.6​

Rating gap between team means -- 33.2

Obviously, the Cup will not be played with Team Europe having a 33-point FargoRate advantage in every match. But, just for fun:

Probability of higher-rated player winning a single game if the rating gap is 33 points -- 56%
Prob. of higher-rated player winning a race to 5 if the rating gap is 33 pts. -- 64%
Prob. of winning a race to 11 matches if your prob. of winning each match is 64% -- 91%

Here's an interesting idea, at least to me. If the games results closely follow the Fargo ratings, it would work in the USA's favor to match Styer with Filler, Van Boening with Ruiz, Woodward with Alcaide. Dominguez and Strickland being so close and Shaw and Ouschan also being close makes that matchup a wash. It doesn't really do much when Team Europe is rated so much higher but with closely rated teams where there is a spread of player rating, Sacrificing your weakest player to the other teams strongest player frees up your strongest player to take on a weaker player. You could accept a disadvantage in one game to gain advantage in 4. Realistically, our guys will all need to have their best games and their guys will have to be a little off for me to like our chances.

 

[telinoz]

Awesome thread.
Lot of effort mate.

 

[jasonlaus]

And again, this is why I don't understand everybody wanting Shane on the team every year - he has a straight up losing record, how can you expect to win if "your guy" only wins 40% of the time? How bad are Americans at math???

 

[penguin]

And again, this is why I don't understand everybody wanting Shane on the team every year - he has a straight up losing record, how can you expect to win if "your guy" only wins 40% of the time? How bad are Americans at math???

You say that like Americans actually have a choice of whether to support Shane or not.

(Hint: They don't)

 

[Tennesseejoe]

Very 'eye opening'...I like Earl being on the team for many reasons. One being I'm near 80. LOL

 

[jasonlaus]

You say that like Americans actually have a choice of whether to support Shane or not.

(Hint: They don't)

But they do support him and say they need him every year, why do you need a player that has a huge track record of being a 40% winner? Makes no sense whatsoever

 

[penguin]

But they do support him and say they need him every year, why do you need a player that has a huge track record of being a 40% winner? Makes no sense whatsoever

My point was that blindly supporting Shane is hurting American pool.

 

[skip100]

But they do support him and say they need him every year, why do you need a player that has a huge track record of being a 40% winner? Makes no sense whatsoever

What exactly are you arguing for? Booting him off the team in favor of an alternative like Tony Chohan, Josh Roberts, or Jonathan Pinegar?

 

[justnum]

If the SVB choice is up for debate, which other living American has the greatest recognition outside of Earl?

Based on the AZB top money list:
For Women: Jeanette Lee, Monica Webb, and Vivian Villareal
For Men: Johnny Archer, Corey Deuel and Rodney Morris

Question is the AZB money list adjusted for inflation?

 

[Rusty in Montana]

In lite of the statistics mentioned above I'm still rooting for team USA I feel if they go into their matches as if it's a do or die situation and have the out look the Europeans are overly confident they will kick there butts ha ha .
Besides what can I say I'm an eternal optimism !

 

[tomatoshooter]

It's a tough call with SVB. He's 30 points higher than the next best American, but apparently the format of Mosconi just doesn't suit him. I can't think of anyone else that I like better for the team than SVB. What is it about Mosconi that doesn't work for Shane? Short races, alternate break, the crowds, or the team dynamic. I have to say that being on a team when you play an individual sport like pool is weird. When I dog a shot on league night I feel like I let the team down.

 

[sjm]

It's a tough call with SVB. He's 30 points higher than the next best American, but apparently the format of Mosconi just doesn't suit him. I can't think of anyone else that I like better for the team than SVB. What is it about Mosconi that doesn't work for Shane? Short races, alternate break, the crowds, or the team dynamic. I have to say that being on a team when you play an individual sport like pool is weird. When I dog a shot on league night I feel like I let the team down.

I'm going to have to preface my remarks with this: "maybe I'm wrong."

I think all these long marathon races have gradually made Shane less competitive in very short races. In a short race, especially the race to 5 that is standard at the Mosconi, your next mistake will often cost you the match. In a long race, you play hours and hours in which this is not the case, and there's much less pressure, because you've got time to recover from almost any error you make.

As so many others have noted on this forum over the years, Mosconi pressure is at a higher level than what is found at any other event and not everybody is able to fade that pressure.

 

[spartan]

Here's an interesting idea, at least to me. If the games results closely follow the Fargo ratings, it would work in the USA's favor to match Styer with Filler, Van Boening with Ruiz, Woodward with Alcaide. Dominguez and Strickland being so close and Shaw and Ouschan also being close makes that matchup a wash. It doesn't really do much when Team Europe is rated so much higher but with closely rated teams where there is a spread of player rating, Sacrificing your weakest player to the other teams strongest player frees up your strongest player to take on a weaker player. You could accept a disadvantage in one game to gain advantage in 4. Realistically, our guys will all need to have their best games and their guys will have to be a little off for me to like our chances.

Yes problem is captains daily lineups are blind so it is not so straightforward. Captains may be able to guess better opponents 2nd 3rd day lineup after 1st day lineup

 

[penguin]

What is it about Mosconi that doesn't work for Shane? Short races, alternate break, the crowds, or the team dynamic. I have to say that being on a team when you play an individual sport like pool is weird. When I dog a shot on league night I feel like I let the team down.

Shane is not a team player and makes no effort to be.

Unfortunately, one of the major selection criteria for Team USA is how well a player gets along with Shane.

 

[Maniac]

Shane is not a team player and makes no effort to be.

Unfortunately, one of the major selection criteria for Team USA is how well a player gets along with Shane.

What does it matter??? It's going to be yet another runaway victory for Team Europe with any team USA puts in there. American pool is years behind the Europeans with little hope in the foreseeable future.

Hell, I could pick 5 players from Poland alone and probably beat the USA in the Mosconi Cup.

A better exhibition would be the Europeans versus the Asians in the MC.

 

[Fatboy]

What does it matter??? It's going to be yet another runaway victory for Team Europe with any team USA puts in there. American pool is years behind the Europeans with little hope in the foreseeable future.

Hell, I could pick 5 players from Poland alone and probably beat the USA in the Mosconi Cup.

A better exhibition would be the Europeans versus the Asians in the MC.

Sure looks that way to me as well, of course I always root for America. However we are clear dogs in the race.

How did we get here? That’s clear too-and the solution will take 10 years at a minimum to correct if we start today.

It would be great if we can win, I’ll be there.

Best
Fatboy

 

[tomatoshooter]

I'm going to have to preface my remarks with this: "maybe I'm wrong."

I think all these long marathon races have gradually made Shane less competitive in very short races. In a short race, especially the race to 5 that is standard at the Mosconi, your next mistake will often cost you the match. In a long race, you play hours and hours in which this is not the case, and there's much less pressure, because you've got time to recover from almost any error you make.

As so many others have noted on this forum over the years, Mosconi pressure is at a higher level than what is found at any other event and not everybody is able to fade that pressure.

That's a good hypothesis. As straight as these guys are shooting, one mistake can seal the match. At least in a race to 9 you'll probably get one freebie. SVB's certainly capable of playing 5 racks flawlessly but add in the pressure of playing for a team and it gets tougher.

Shane is not a team player and makes no effort to be.

Unfortunately, one of the major selection criteria for Team USA is how well a player gets along with Shane.

I don't know anything about Shane as far as what he's like as a teammate. I do think the camaraderie and support is an important part of being on a team but he doesn't strike me as someone who has a disruptive or abrasive personality. He always seems super quiet and detached, he doesn't come across as particularly chummy. I can see Earl's volatile personality being a distraction and possibly requiring strong mental discipline to stay focused.

 

[tomatoshooter]

the solution will take 10 years at a minimum to correct if we start today.

I've been practicing every day and it will take me 100 years to get there.