Mosconi cup

[Quesports]

A couple of random thoughts in conclusion. First of all we must find another option for watching this in the American market. I am convinced the audience is out there, and one the networks covet.

What you didn’t see was the make-up/demographic of the audience in Las Vegas. Maybe only 10-15 percent were over 50 and the great majority in their 20’s and 30’s, similar in age to the players. The 20-45 year old age group is very attractive to advertisers and sponsors. And it appears they are beginning to really appreciate pool and the spectacle of the MC.

I doubt I’m the only one who noticed that. Matchroom and other major promoters should be capitalizing on this new reality. It is a selling point for their programming.

Barry Hearn said it very succinctly. If you get more money in the game (I.e. prize money) more young kids will want to be pool players. You can forget about the Olympics! That’s been a total waste of time and resources. I’ve been saying much the same thing for decades and felt like a lone wolf in the wilderness.

The Olympics went downhill the moment they chose to allow professionals to participate.

 

[sammylane12]

Yeah, Tyler struggled with the break and Alcaide played damn near perfect. I don't think Tyler made a mistake, he just could not get his break working.

"Playing well" doesn`t cut it in the Mosconi Cup. Only the W.

 

[Kim Bye]

I might be European, but I don't care at all what team wins, I want to see great pool and in my opinion this was like watching paint dry. For the most part it felt boring, Skyler and Jayson showed some personality, the other players felt like robots, (let's just pass by Earl in silence..) No elegant play, for the most part just choppy poke the ball stuff. I can't see this beeing very exiting for others than the die hard pool folks.
Is this really the future of pool?

 

[ChrisinNC]

"Playing well" doesn`t cut it in the Mosconi Cup. Only the W.

Our demise yesterday was summed up by our best player, Sky, missing a very easy shot that would have put him up 4-1 in his match, which if he’d won would have tied the overall score at 8-8.

Looking at the video, he did have to use an extension, was stretched out and had to draw it back a tad for the 8-ball. Very much like the miss Tyler had on the 8-ball in the final game yesterday, in the very same pocket.

 

[Nick8400]

I might be European, but I don't care at all what team wins, I want to see great pool and in my opinion this was like watching paint dry. For the most part it felt boring, Skyler and Jayson showed some personality, the other players felt like robots, (let's just pass by Earl in silence..) No elegant play, for the most part just choppy poke the ball stuff. I can't see this beeing very exiting for others than the die hard pool folks.
Is this really the future of pool?

You must have been watching a different Mosconi Cup than I was.

 

[ChrisinNC]

I said it before, and I will say it again. Shane McMinn has no chance to make the Mosconi Cup, as his weight makes him a very poor choice for marketing the game to the younger demographic. His current appearance reinforces all the negative stereotypes of pool players in the public eye. Matchrroom wants to market pool players as the supreme athletes they are, and are not going to put an extremely obese, out of shape pool player on television if they can in any way avoid it.

I know this is harsh, but it is the blunt reality of the marketing/economics.

Can’t believe you are bringing this up yet again. Weight and appearance didn’t keep the Miz from being asked to do the Miller Light spot that did so much for pool’s popularity, and pudgy Minnesota Fats was/is still unquestionably the most famous pool player of all time. Some of the most popular and well liked players on the PGA tour carry some extra baggage - so what? If the guy is deserving of a spot on the team do you honestly think that would be an issue?

 

[garczar]

I said it before, and I will say it again. Shane McMinn has no chance to make the Mosconi Cup, as his weight makes him a very poor choice for marketing the game to the younger demographic. His current appearance reinforces all the negative stereotypes of pool players in the public eye. Matchrroom wants to market pool players as the supreme athletes they are, and are not going to put an extremely obese, out of shape pool player on television if they can in any way avoid it.

I know this is harsh, but it is the blunt reality of the marketing/economics.

That's funny, using "pool players" and "supreme athletes" in the same sentence. BTW, Shane got in the gym earlier this yr and has lost weight and really gotten strong. I'd predict he could whip everyone's ass on both teams.

 

[garczar]

Can’t believe you are bringing this up yet again. Weight and appearance didn’t keep the Miz from being asked to do the Miller Light spot that did so much for pool’s popularity, and pudgy Minnesota Fats was/is still unquestionably the most famous pool player of all time. Some of the most popular and well liked players on the PGA tour carry some extra baggage - so what? If the guy is deserving of a spot on the team do you honestly think that would be an issue?

Sad but true. Its the reason McMinn was not chosen a few yrs ago.

 

[J.D. Dolan]

A couple of random thoughts in conclusion. First of all we must find another option for watching this in the American market. I am convinced the audience is out there, and one the networks covet.

What you didn’t see was the make-up/demographic of the audience in Las Vegas. Maybe only 10-15 percent were over 50 and the great majority in their 20’s and 30’s, similar in age to the players. The 20-45 year old age group is very attractive to advertisers and sponsors. And it appears they are beginning to really appreciate pool and the spectacle of the MC.

I doubt I’m the only one who noticed that. Matchroom and other major promoters should be capitalizing on this new reality. It is a selling point for their programming.

Barry Hearn said it very succinctly. If you get more money in the game (I.e. prize money) more young kids will want to be pool players. You can forget about the Olympics! That’s been a total waste of time and resources. I’ve been saying much the same thing for decades and felt like a lone wolf in the wilderness.

I agree with you about finding other options for watching the event, but millions of us--particularly younger viewers--don't use cable. Streaming it on YouTube (or another platform), would make it accessible, bring in ad revenue, and build the audience. Also, Matchroom needs to make the scores and the progress of the tournament readily accessible. Their website was useless. I went to Matchroom.live a few hours after a match, thinking I could see the video, and realized they were only posting stuff from last year. For scores and updates, many of us had to rely on pals like you (thanks, BTW) to post on AZB. (AZB could have also posted the current scores on its main page.)

I also think the U.S. team needs to include younger players, such as Shane Wolford and Josh Roberts. And while JJ is a fine coach, he has to have players who are coachable. I'll just leave it at that.

See you at DCC?

 

[SBC]

So which 2 or 3 players are you nominating to play against Europe's world champions at home next year?

I think Jonathan Pinegar woukd be great. He's so good under pressure for the cash.

Bring back Billy Thorpe.

Unsponsored pros aren't getting invites as much because MC is really a show to get advertisers.

 

[SBC]

I honestly don't know what incentive I, as a USA fan, have to continue watching the Mosconi Cup in the future. It's amazing that the US did as well as they did this year. But picking Earl and Oscar to be on this year's team is like a slap in the face to anyone who wants to watch a cup where the US has even a shred of a chance to win. I think I might be tuning out in the future.

Oscar is a great player
Who are you getting to replace him? And Bergman and Dechaine aren't choices, nor is Thorpe who's in the penalty box still.

 

[SBC]

A couple of random thoughts in conclusion. First of all we must find another option for watching this in the American market. I am convinced the audience is out there, and one the networks covet.

What you didn’t see was the make-up/demographic of the audience in Las Vegas. Maybe only 10-15 percent were over 50 and the great majority in their 20’s and 30’s, similar in age to the players. The 20-45 year old age group is very attractive to advertisers and sponsors. And it appears they are beginning to really appreciate pool and the spectacle of the MC.

I doubt I’m the only one who noticed that. Matchroom and other major promoters should be capitalizing on this new reality. It is a selling point for their programming.

Barry Hearn said it very succinctly. If you get more money in the game (I.e. prize money) more young kids will want to be pool players. You can forget about the Olympics! That’s been a total waste of time and resources. I’ve been saying much the same thing for decades and felt like a lone wolf in the wilderness.

I seen world 8 ball with 1100 viewers....I had triple that when SVB played Strickland on a Wednesday night using a moderately known streamer.

 

[Coos Cues]

All and all Team USA has conducted themselves well, considering the circumstances. Everyone knew we were outgunned going into this conflict, the only question was how bad it was going to be. And here we are after three days trailing only 8-6 and very much alive.

Realistically I don’t like our chances from here but whatever the outcome these guys can hold their heads high. Playing only singles on the final day greatly favors the Euros imo. I know I’ve overused this word but it would truly be a miracle for USA to pull this one
out from here. At least we can dream.

For some reason I’m reminded of a BCA five man team I played on over twenty years ago. We had four very good players and one weak player, who happened to be our Captain. His name was Richard Mikesell (I want to remember him. He was my friend and he loved pool). Richard always organized strong teams and surrounded himself with good players. In a typical match Richard might win one or two games out of five played. The rest of us picked up the slack.

We won the league championship and went to the BCA Nationals here in Vegas, where we won our first three or four matches and were in the final 64 teams. Now we played a strong team from Texas and four of us went 3-2 W/L in games. Alas poor Richard got shut out 0/5 and we were eliminated. That was a major disappointment for all of us and our team disbanded after that year.

Somehow this reminds me of that very scenario, of course on a much higher level. Who knows what might have been with a better qualified player in the 5th spot on the roster? Perhaps the other four players would not have been so inspired to pick up the slack without Earl on board. Despite his shortcomings it is obvious to me the respect his team mates have for him. After all he may have been the greatest American player of all time, and he inspired all those who followed in his footsteps, including Shane.

Perhaps there might have been a better way to recognize Earl’s contributions to our sport, maybe making him an honorary co-captain. It has become pretty clear that the present day Earl does not belong out there with these elite players.

I hope that a miracle happens and he makes me eat my words. That’s what dreams are made of.

Earl has been the age of all his team mates but they have never been 61 year old. If I am still alive when they reach that age and can play better than Earl does today or are in better physical condition I will be shocked. Earl should have had his swan song last year but was robbed by the pandemic and IMO he acquitted himself just fine. Not like we were going to win this thing with one different player anyway. Nothing shameful about what went down in this year's cup.

 

[Coos Cues]

Our demise yesterday was summed up by our best player, Sky, missing a very easy shot that would have put him up 4-1 in his match, which if he’d won would have tied the overall score at 8-8.

Looking at the video, he did have to use an extension, was stretched out and had to draw it back a tad for the 8-ball. Very much like the miss Tyler had on the 8-ball in the final game yesterday, in the very same pocket.

That's sort of how the whole thing went. USA was one key mistake slower all event and the tolerance level for that really doesn't exist against the worlds best.

 

[Cuedup]

To grow the event people need to be able to actually watch the event. Their delivery system is horrible. As much as I'd love to watch it, I'm not getting screwed over again.

 

[Coos Cues]

Oscar is a great player
Who are you getting to replace him? And Bergan and Dechaine aren't choices, nor is Thorpe who's in the penalty box still.

Well that's the trouble. Oscar is not a great player he is a very good player. Just like the rest of the Americans.

 

[SBC]

Oscar wasnt picked. He earned his spot. He put in the time and travel that others weren’t willing to do. It’s a slap in his face to say otherwise

I'd back Oscar to play anybody outside of 5 or 6 in the country. He's a stone cold machine, taught by his dad. He does not rattle. If given the chance to win the final set, he'd be capable.

We have 30 of 40 low level "pros" behind the top 5 or 6 and a handful of aging pros who don't really play. Then under 100 shortstop types who I'd never call pro speed.

It's no wonder why we don't have a dozen guys with high ratings, that are full time touring pros. It's because we don't have a tour with payouts that gives us the opportunity to produce these players. I know if the incentive was there for guys to play, we'd produce more top players, but the money isn't there.

Additionally big table pool in the US is dying. National leagues hurt the legit pool halls badly. Very hard to make enough off a room full of 9 footers paying rent in a big city. Put covid losses on top of it and you have the closures we've seen.

We've been in a major downward spiral for a couple decades. Honestly I don't see an upside. Real pool, played on 9 foot tables is too difficult to become accomplished at. People would rather throw axes, bean bags or spew cash out onto a poker table.

 

[SBC]

I said it before, and I will say it again. Shane McMinn has no chance to make the Mosconi Cup, as his weight makes him a very poor choice for marketing the game to the younger demographic. His current appearance reinforces all the negative stereotypes of pool players in the public eye. Matchrroom wants to market pool players as the supreme athletes they are, and are not going to put an extremely obese, out of shape pool player on television if they can in any way avoid it.

I know this is harsh, but it is the blunt reality of the marketing/economics.

Shaws belly looks like a bag of milk!
But I hear what you are saying.

 

[SBC]

Well that's the trouble. Oscar is not a great player he is a very good player. Just like the rest of the Americans.

He's absolutely in top 10 on the county...and 3 better than him couldn't play.

We let Matchroom take over MC and US Open. Now the world's talent comes here to play. We don't have the talent to win.

Fedor spent last year here and has taken the lion's share of winnings already. Without a chance to win, players aren't going to put in the work.

 

[ChrisinNC]

I'd back Oscar to play anybody outside of 5 or 6 in the country. He's a stone cold machine, taught by his dad. He does not rattle. If given the chance to win the final set, he'd be capable.

Oscar has certainly proven himself to be a big $ challenge match player and will match up against almost anyone.

However, as is the case in most of these big $ challenge matches, how many of those are his own $ or his backer’s $? There’s a huge difference. It’s a completely unique type of pressure in the Mosconi cup, with such short races.

Rock solid fundamentals to depend upon, which in general the Europeans have over us, as well as who best handles the pressure, cannot be stressed enough in these very short races.