Are we seeing the end of wood cues?

[The_JV]

I still play with an allwood cue that I made probably 40 years ago. But I could see myself if I was a new player playing with a cf. Likely those players you're referring to are players who have played with the same cue for years and they're not about to really make a change.

I'd say it's a mash up of players with various amounts of time with their equipment. I'm in that group for instance, and did a complete overhaul of my player about ~2yrs ago. Could have made the change then, but opted to stay with wood. Another went to a full custom, and chose to stick with a Vantage shaft. Yet, another recently bought a Z3 shaft in move away from a 314. So, in a way you're right. However it's not like these players aren't willing to swap out what they playing with and adopt something new.

I think the reality here is that players with real time under their belts and that understand the physics of the game, know that there isn't any performance advantage to CF, so why bother. Sure those in the other camp will tout things like both radial consistency and two separate off the shelf shafts hitting identically. However I know zero players and I doubt anyone else could pick up on any radial 'inconsistency' in a LD wooden shaft. For some, the risk vs reward is the prime consideration when attempting equipment swaps. Until CF reaches a point wherein it's on par or cheaper than wood, they're will always be hold outs. Myself included...

 

[RDeca]

I was going by your reply to joey. Asking cf snooker cues or billiard cues?
I think Ash will always be for snooker. You do see maple, but not very many.

Is that because they can't get the stiffness desired out of a 10mm shaft with maple? I've never even held a real snooker cue that's why I'm asking

 

[garczar]

See any cf snooker cues or billiard cues?

a lot of 3c players are using cf these days. I doubt snooker ever leaves the ash forest.

 

[garczar]

The idea that Little League baseball allowed the shift from wood bats to save money is pure B.S. - anybody here play LL baseball when it was ONLY wood bats- like in the 1960s- wood bats RARELY broke from play at the LL level - nobody threw hard enough to break many bats at all in LL and that is mostly still the case- the switch off wood was for kid's parents who could afford it to gain an edge and LL never stood up to the metal bat onslaught.

Another myth- in truth, most wood shafts turned by custom cue makers, if consistently kept in reasonable climate conditions- do not wrap to the point that play and accuracy would be affected to any noticeable degree for 99.9% of players. Most pool players should have way, way more concern about their stroke and their table approach than their equipment, most golfers and tennis players suffer from the same " equipment worry fatigue"-- when you keep looking for excuses instead of putting in the work according to the correct principles - you become a mouse on the treadmill of mediocrity.

You don't see as many broken bats until kids start getting stronger. By jr high/hs LOTS of bats were getting broken when wood was used. Simply a cost reason to go to aluminum. I played a lot of bb from '67-'76(LL ball) and bats didn't break much. The switch had nothing to do with parents 'looking for an edge'. Bats were supplied by the coach and most funds were league donations. Cost matter, pure and simple.

 

[garczar]

Is that because they can't get the stiffness desired out of a 10mm shaft with maple? I've never even held a real snooker cue that's why I'm asking

More out of tradition than anything else. If some big-name snooker player shows up and wins with a 9mm cf shaft you may see a bunch switch. That remains to be seen but it wouldn't surprise me. Younger players are less bound to old-school stuff.

 

[Z-Nole]

I’ve tried the carbon fiber cues and they just don’t have the hit I like. I’m sure if I was starting out new today I would start with a LD carbon cue, but there’s zero chance of me switching now. But carbon fiber seems to be the way cues are going. Just like masts for sailboats and now the boats themselves. My brother is racing a full carbon fiber halfway around the world in a couple of weeks. Couldn’t have imagined that ten years ago.

 

[FunChamp]

I'd say it's a mash up of players with various amounts of time with their equipment. I'm in that group for instance, and did a complete overhaul of my player about ~2yrs ago. Could have made the change then, but opted to stay with wood. Another went to a full custom, and chose to stick with a Vantage shaft. Yet, another recently bought a Z3 shaft in move away from a 314. So, in a way you're right. However it's not like these players aren't willing to swap out what they playing with and adopt something new.

I think the reality here is that players with real time under their belts and that understand the physics of the game, know that there isn't any performance advantage to CF, so why bother. Sure those in the other camp will tout things like both radial consistency and two separate off the shelf shafts hitting identically. However I know zero players and I doubt anyone else could pick up on any radial 'inconsistency' in a LD wooden shaft. For some, the risk vs reward is the prime consideration when attempting equipment swaps. Until CF reaches a point wherein it's on par or cheaper than wood, they're will always be hold outs. Myself included...

I agree with The_JV completely. There is no performance value in CF. I mean if you like CF by all means shoot with it. Radial consistency is a joke because 1. who can tell the difference when they rotate the shaft 2. Most don't switch between wood shafts for one cue unless you have a custom. You can use your regular maple shaft that came with your cue for decades. LD and CF do what they are intended to do but the performance benefits really are negligible and they are way overpriced and overhyped. I'll craw back in my hole now.

 

[Cue Alchemist]

Is that because they can't get the stiffness desired out of a 10mm shaft with maple? I've never even held a real snooker cue that's why I'm asking

No as garczer said, its more tradition.ash is stiffer than maple. The arrows or the chevrons in the wood. Are used for sighting or aiming.thay are around 8.5 to 9.5 in diameter.
Hendry won all his 7 worlds with an old powerglide maple cue. He had since he was 12. Unfortunately it got smashed up. Through baggage and handling, at an airport.
There aren't many using maple now. Players tend to use, what everybody is using.
Much like you see in the pool world.

 

[Nick B]

No as garczer said, its more tradition.ash is stiffer than maple. The arrows or the chevrons in the wood. Are used for sighting or aiming.thay are around 8.5 to 9.5 in diameter.
Hendry won all his 7 worlds with an old powerglide maple cue. He had since he was 12. Unfortunately it got smashed up. Through baggage and handling, at an airport.
There aren't many using maple now. Players tend to use, what everybody is using.
Much like you see in the pool world.

Here let me correct that for you...
There aren't many using maple now. Players tend to use, what the industry is selling...
Much like you see in the pool world.

Don't get me wrong I play with LD shafts (ash for snooker) but see no value in moving to CF except for durability. I don't bang my stuff so I'm good. Now if I needed a couple of shafts I might consider it but at current pricing I suspect not. A Revo is almost 2x what a 314 is and I prefer the hit of the 314. I also have 5 Million data points that I don't want to reprogram.

 

[Cue Alchemist]

Here let me correct that for you...
There aren't many using maple now. Players tend to use, what the industry is selling...
Much like you see in the pool world.

Don't get me wrong I play with LD shafts (ash for snooker) but see no value in moving to CF except for durability. I don't bang my stuff so I'm good. Now if I needed a couple of shafts I might consider it but at current pricing I suspect not. A Revo is almost 2x what a 314 is and I prefer the hit of the 314. I also have 5 Million data points that I don't want to reprogram.

I just meant, all the best are using Ash, have done for a long time. Everyone coming through In the game, most likely will use ash.
Agree with you, about CF i doudt it would ever work, with snooker. Most players use a one piece. Or a 3/4 cue.

 

[greyghost]

No as garczer said, its more tradition.ash is stiffer than maple. The arrows or the chevrons in the wood. Are used for sighting or aiming.thay are around 8.5 to 9.5 in diameter.
Hendry won all his 7 worlds with an old powerglide maple cue. He had since he was 12. Unfortunately it got smashed up. Through baggage and handling, at an airport.
There aren't many using maple now. Players tend to use, what everybody is using.
Much like you see in the pool world.

Sorry man but this is totally false and people keep floating those comments around like it’s true

Sugar Maple is roughly 10% harder, stiffer, and stronger than White Ash.

Meaning it’s got a higher janka rating, higher modulus of elasticity and a higher crushing strength.

There’s tons of available research that shows it….I have no idea why that ash is stiffer than maple baloney always seems to creep up.

snooker cues are conically tapered which is a much much stiffer taper than the pro tapers found in pool cues. But that has ZERO to do with the wood.

People keep bringing up bats….the ash bats are the CHEAP bats.

The best bats pro ball players use are made of maple, it’s harder, stiffer, denser and doesn’t break as easy long term.

 

[greyghost]

Is that because they can't get the stiffness desired out of a 10mm shaft with maple? I've never even held a real snooker cue that's why I'm asking

No because maple is stiffer, harder and stronger than ash…it is also denser/heavier than ash.

The ball is smaller so the choice for ash is actually beneficial in regards to deflection…it’s not as stiff but the conical taper solves that, it’s lighter weight will help to reduce end mass and make for less cb squirt. But it’s still flexible enough that even having a conical taper the ash doesn’t play like a iron rail.

 

[1sttbone]

Im sure svb has not won a usopen with carbon fiber shaft. He did win World championship with cf. he says he likes cf shafts but not sure he plays any better. r360 was a hell of shaft as are the predators and if you player has wood or cf shaft and you like it thats all that matters. my Soutwest has laminated shafts and what a great player. I tried cf shafts and personnally prefer wood.

 

[Cue Alchemist]

Sorry man but this is totally false and people keep floating those comments around like it’s true

Sugar Maple is roughly 10% harder, stiffer, and stronger than White Ash.

Meaning it’s got a higher janka rating, higher modulus of elasticity and a higher crushing strength.

There’s tons of available research that shows it….I have no idea why that ash is stiffer than maple baloney always seems to creep up.

snooker cues are conically tapered which is a much much stiffer taper than the pro tapers found in pool cues. But that has ZERO to do with the wood.

People keep bringing up bats….the ash bats are the CHEAP bats.

The best bats pro ball players use are made of maple, it’s harder, stiffer, denser and doesn’t break as easy long term.

Grey ghost, thank you for the correction. I always thought that. I remember hearing back 2002, one of the taipei players using an Ash jump cue, and the question was asked why, the answer the commentar gave, was its stiffer and lighter. At least half of it, was right

 

[Pushout]

If I beat you when you played with wood, I'll still beat you when you play with carbon fiber.