I bought this after reading some reviews.
Cloth stretch, use manufacturers recommendations?
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PracticeChampion
Well-known member
Wish I knew the exact stretch several weeks ago. We had that clothe put on 4 tables and the guy said he stretched it 7", it was great for a day or so and then it pulled loose on every table all around it
Watch this video for an idea how the cloth should be indexed:
If you anchor one side, the stretch is the same all the way around, if the weave of the cloth is the same in both directions. Not more on the ends. I have not tried that cloth so I don't know how it stretches. Anchor one side and your stretch should feel about 3/4 as tight of what you pull on the ends, otherwise you wont be able to stretch the ends proportionally. Experience and feel is your friend with stuff like this. Not all cloth stretches the same, but with experience you can adjust to get it pulled evenly, and at the proper tension.
It's a huge advantage to have someone experienced do this, or guide you through it. It CAN be done by a person without experience. Videos + advice from places like this CAN end in a good result. But even someone with good mechanical skills and abilities needs to do this a bunch of times before they become comfortable and proficient at it.
It's a huge advantage to have someone experienced do this, or guide you through it. It CAN be done by a person without experience. Videos + advice from places like this CAN end in a good result. But even someone with good mechanical skills and abilities needs to do this a bunch of times before they become comfortable and proficient at it.
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Thanks for replies. Problem is, I don't trust just anyone. And I don't hang around pool halls and what not to have a good referral for a mechanic. Im a harley davidson mechanic & have my own shop. I see work other people have done all the time. Just like table mechanics, there are the people that care about what they do, and the ones that dont, or don't know any better i guess. I have read and seen on here poor work that people has paid for. At least if i do the work, its on me, not pay somebody else to do a poor job. I do my homework . Thats what bought me here. I got the rails completed & just finished leveling the slate after spending ALOT of time with that. I respect the trade now.
I used to play alot & with a few tight friends and then life happened. Want to get back into playing. Thanks again.
I used to play alot & with a few tight friends and then life happened. Want to get back into playing. Thanks again.
I don't know of any cloth manufacturer that provides a "recommendation" of how much to stretch the cloth on install. Even with Simonis that is typically a consistent cloth, I personally index "each" piece of cloth I install. So my advice is follow the info you've researched on how to index cloth and go from there.
This^^^. Just assume every cloth will be different and check each one.
Re cloth stretch: I've heard an opinion that better cloth stretches more. Or, if you like, between two types of cloth the one that stretches more is better than the other.
Is this true? Or the degree of stretching is irrelevant, as long as one gets proper (max?) stretch for a given piece?
Is this true? Or the degree of stretching is irrelevant, as long as one gets proper (max?) stretch for a given piece?
I put Simonis 860hr on my table about4 years ago and installed it exactly like the simonis video says. When I replace it I will do it tighter. Seems a little loose to me.
As a general statement, better quality cloth is harder to stretch. This can be do to many factors(some of these examples overlap) .... weave, thread count, type of thread, blend % of wool/Nylon, weight per square yard, etc.
McRitchie
Active member
We have found the the stretch index they offer in the Simonis DVDS is not enough. Nor anyone elses videos.
This guys done his own table and we will be playing on it soon! We know he streched it max index and so do we!
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I'm not a mechanic but this seems strange.Wish I knew the exact stretch several weeks ago. We had that clothe put on 4 tables and the guy said he stretched it 7", it was great for a day or so and then it pulled loose on every table all around it
When I hire a mechanic to do my carom table, I don't think you could get an additional 1/4" more.
Never heard of a cloth popping loose.
PracticeChampion
Well-known member
I've talked to a few other local mechanics since, everyone said they didn't get the old glue off. They said the 3m77 spray adhesive is awesome stuff and so is contact cement out of a can but they don't mix. So if some uncleaned 77 was on the slate and this guy used rkc cement for example it won't hold or vice versa
Just my opinion and I'm not a table mechanic but I don't think the 3M77 spray adhesive is very awesome, at least not for recovering pool tables. The cloth on my Valley started coming loose on the bottom after I had it recovered, the table mechanic used 3M77 spray adhesive even though I had plenty of 3M 10 left over from my GCI and I know all of the old glue was gone because I cleaned it off myself. I used the 3M 10 adhesive on my GCI, now that stuff is awesome and I had no problem at all with it, I prepared the Valley and the GCI myself so I know it was not a preparation error. I assume the RKC glue is great too.
I agree about the spray adhesive. We've had problems with it losing adhesion. One problem we had was on my personal table. It is in an un insulated garage. During a summer heat spell, it popped loose. The contact cement did the job though.
Not necessarily. Your better worsted cloths don't have as much stretch. With a possible exception of Championship Tour Edition cloth which is decent, but stretches almost twice as much. It's a lot easier to install, which is likely why some people promote it.
I recovered my GC4 and went a 1/4" more stretch than the Simonis DVD suggested.
GoodPM
Member
Likewise. Would have left too much material when stretching lengthwise if I followed the DVD.
Hmmm. I wasn't thinking about glue popping loose. I was thinking staples.
My minor experience with 3M 77 with other projects, tells me it wouldn't work with my mechanic.
McRitchie
Active member
It directly says on the Simonis website: "
We recommend 3M Fast-Bond10™ for edge-glue glue-down installations. Currently, we are not aware of any other adhesives that will give proper adhesion for a straight edge-glue install."
We use RKC-250, and of course do not associate with the "inventor" of said Adhesive.
It is a great product.
Note for Glue-Down Installations
Simonis cloth can be glued, but only with certain adhesives. Most spray adhesives, WILL NOT hold the cloth in a edge-glue application.We recommend 3M Fast-Bond10™ for edge-glue glue-down installations. Currently, we are not aware of any other adhesives that will give proper adhesion for a straight edge-glue install."
We use RKC-250, and of course do not associate with the "inventor" of said Adhesive.
It is a great product.
I edge glued the Simonis on my Gold Crown with 3M Fastbond M10 and no problems whatsoever. Now my Valley that I had someone else recover who used 3M 77 spray adhesive, not such good results, I don't think the spray adhesive is nearly as strong as contact cement.