Poolgame: Kill the King

Bob Jewett said:
That's a little harsh.

However, there is a subforum that was specifically set up for new games and the rules/strategies for old games. Here it is:

Cuesports: Rules & Strategies

Maintained by the staff at 300ways.com, this area is for questions and comments concerning the rules and strategies covered in the book Over 300 Ways to Play Billiards.
forums.azbilliards.com
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It was meant to be. You guys really wanna fade this cat cooking up some crazy ass game every week???? I've got him on Ignore now so i don't really give a shit now. Greatest feature of any forum i've ever been on.
 
I find the combining of two words into one is driving my grammar nazi into a frenzy. Can’t get past it. Poolgame cueball kingball objectball. Why? Why is the english language being so butchered?

Other than that, in my experience pool players don’t have a love of math. Might be a hard sell. Bonus Ball seemed to be about as complex as most pool players could handle, or they would all be masters at 3 and 4 rails kicks, right?
 
DaWizard said:
I think in the recruitmentphase phase there could be various strategies:
- buying few strong balls, as they're expensive
- buying as many balls as possible
- buying your preferred balls and rearrange your queue with left over points so the ball you need enters the arena quickly
- funky stuff with the assassin

Placement of the balls might be really difficult at first. Also because our minds are not used to you can pot any ball with the equal number or less.

But once the game starts I think there will be a chess like, or 1pocket like, game. A game where you manoever balls to gain an advantageous position. And at some point you turn that into profit (e.g. pot enemies or even the King) or you slip and lose the game.
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It's Stratego on a billiard table. What makes this game a tough sell is that you don't have an elevator pitch. That and it being very unorthodox compared the most American games makes it hard to explain quickly.

Now, if you'll forgive me, I have to get ready for the four pocket world championship.
 
garczar said:
It was meant to be. You guys really wanna fade this cat cooking up some crazy ass game every week???? I've got him on Ignore now so i don't really give a shit now. Greatest feature of any forum i've ever been on.
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This is the proper way. In the end getting all worked up over a topic about pool on a pool forum seems a bit... Well there has got to be more important things in life to focus your energy on. But writing sarcastic comments is entertaining, so that's part of why people do it. And if they're creatieve I even like them. And if they don't come I'm worried my internet connection might be down.
 
So reading this a bit, I think a game that is a cross between one pocket and chess and maybe last pocket 8 ball would work pretty well.

Each player sets up what is a 7 ball rack at each spot, with their game ball in the middle. The object of the game is to A. make the opposing ball in the two corner pockets near the rack and B. to play safes with only your balls to protect that ball. You would start with a safety break against your own side, so player A breaks their rack, then player B breaks their rack. Any ball made outside of the game ball would be spotted, but more than one ball would be spotted not in a line going to the end rail but rather in a line going to the side rail, so you can build a "wall" of sorts as blockers. The game ball going into a wrong pocket would also be spotted. You can hit your opponent's balls as a shot to say knock them away from blocking the game ball, but you can't make the game ball at the same time, or you lose one of your balls for the rest of the game. That will prevent making combos on the game ball when the other players plays a safe up against their game ball.
 
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Badpenguin said:
I find the combining of two words into one is driving my grammar nazi into a frenzy. Can’t get past it. Poolgame cueball kingball objectball. Why? Why is the english language being so butchered?

Other than that, in my experience pool players don’t have a love of math. Might be a hard sell. Bonus Ball seemed to be about as complex as most pool players could handle, or they would all be masters at 3 and 4 rails kicks, right?
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Not my first language and live in a non English country. Ill see if ChatGPT can rewrite it. He usually does that pretty well.

The perfect game (imo) would have:
- simple rules, but emergent complexity (chess is the best example. You can learn the rules in 10 minutes, but the tactical possibilities are endless)
- is fun to play for all levels
- has rules that both reward subtle safety play and shot making
- players' strength is decisive, but it has comeback features
- no scorekeeping, rather a 'visual win' (eg sinking the 8 in the right pocket is a win)
- someone that comes spectating halfway must be able to understand the state of the game (in 9ball you immediatly see: ah they're at the 6)
 
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I'm always up for trying new cue sports games and try to share them with others.

I've found the ones with the simplest concepts get the best receptions. Those are the ones they'll want to play again rather than switching back to 8 or 9.

If pool is ever going to have some revolutionary increase in popularity I don't believe it will be will any of the current popular games. It'll be something new. Bless them, I hope I see it.

Until then, I'm pretty happy with the ones we have. It's hard enough finding a good 1pkt matchup.
 
hang-the-9 said:
So reading this a bit, I think a game that is a cross between one pocket and chess and maybe last pocket 8 ball would work pretty well.

Each player sets up what is a 7 ball rack at each spot, with their game ball in the middle. The object of the game is to A. make the opposing ball in the two corner pockets near the rack and B. to play safes with only your balls to protect that ball. You would start with a safety break against your own side, so player A breaks their rack, then player B breaks their rack. Any ball made outside of the game ball would be spotted, but more than one ball would be spotted not in a line going to the end rail but rather in a line going to the side rail, so you can build a "wall" of sorts as blockers. The game ball going into a wrong pocket would also be spotted. You can hit your opponent's balls as a shot to say knock them away from blocking the game ball, but you can't make the game ball at the same time, or you lose one of your balls for the rest of the game. That will prevent making combos on the game ball when the other players plays a safe up against their game ball.
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That's a similar starting setup to 4 pocket. Stripes at one end, solids at the other. Opening player breaks from the kitchen, second player breaks from where the cue ball lies or takes ball in hand in the laundry room (behind the foot string). You win by pocketing all your balls in the 2 corner pockets at the end you break from. Any ball is a legal shot and balls pocketed in the wrong pockets are spotted. I wanted to have the strategic, ball moving qualities of 1P but avoid the stalemates that sometimes occur.

DaWizard said:
The perfect game (imo) would have:
- simple rules, but emergent complexity (chess is the best example. You can learn the rules in 10 minutes, but the tactical possibilities are endless)
- is fun to play for all levels
- has rules that both reward subtle safety play and shot making
- players' strength is decisive, but it has comeback features
- no scorekeeping, rather a 'visual win' (eg sinking the 8 in the right pocket is a win)
- someone that comes spectating halfway must be able to understand the state of the game (in 9ball you immediatly see: ah they're at the 6)
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I definitely agree with your assessment of what makes a great game, although scorekeeping isn't a big turn off. I might add that lead changes are good. Eight ball is a great game at the lower level but when the pros run out 7 out of 10 times, it's less entertaining. 2-3 innings makes a great game.
 
tomatoshooter said:
although scorekeeping isn't a big turn off.
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Anything more complicated than moving a coin around the diamonds will be to the detriment of the game being accepted.

Having a point system that requires the players to each keep an accurate running tally in their heads for the duration of the game is extremely problematic.

I've got number beads above my table and I keep a small board with two tally counters mounted on it in the trunk for ease of scoring when I can entice someone into a game of 14.1. I'm out there trying to play everything but 9 ball and the reality is the vast majority of players out there just like their games simple AF.
 
Best would be without, imo. Snooker does gave pretty complicated scoring and darts as well. But these are old established games.
But it shows scoring is indeed not always bad. And it could even get complicated (Darts: drunk players are calculating scores like 3x20 + 3x17 + 2x20)
 
DaWizard said:
Best would be without, imo. Snooker does gave pretty complicated scoring and darts as well. But these are old established games.
But it shows scoring is indeed not always bad. And it could even get complicated (Darts: drunk players are calculating scores like 3x20 + 3x17 + 2x20)
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I always wind up doubling out on the 1. Saves math.

Cuedup said:
I've got number beads above my table and I keep a small board with two tally counters mounted on it in the trunk for ease of scoring when I can entice someone into a game of 14.1. I'm out there trying to play everything but 9 ball and the reality is the vast majority of players out there just like their games simple AF.
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Yeah, I always forget to mark my score in 14.1, and it's not like 1P where you can always count the balls. I should mark my fouls so the total in synchronized with the balls on the table/rack count.
 
And I was thinking about turn based or continuous shooting. I think part of the fun for the players is to get in a flowy state where everything works. I wonder if that is possible when you switch after every shot. At the very least it'll be much harder. So my guess is that turn based shooting is less enjoyable than games that allow you to make a run.

1 pocket however is often almost turn based and the 'runs' are usually just a couple shots. It might not be as popular as straight pool, but people do enjoy to play.

Edit: thinking out of the box
- a game where the player who says "Me!" first gets to shoot. This could be a game where you not necessarily always want to shoot because of risk (think of the push out)
- a game where the player has X minutes to shoot as much as possible
- a game where chance decides who shoots (the likelyhood could depend on something, eg the number of balls you have left relative to the opponent)
- a game where cue ball location decides who shoots
 
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DaWizard said:
4.1 Recruiting a ball (placing a new ball on the table)
A player can recruit one ball, if he has at least one in the queue. The player must always pick the first ball in line. He may place it anywhere on the table, but it may not be frozen to another ball. After this the turn ends.
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Anywhere on the table seems aggressive. Presumably unless the opponent's king is in a cluster, you could place yourself for a shot to pocket the king, and the opponent would have to move your ball on his next shot. I guess you could bluff with a fake assassin...

Worth trying anywhere on your half? (Also for wrongfully pocketed.)

I like the concept. I don't think it's going to appeal to the majority of pool players, but if it works in practice, it could give the players a lot to chew over, tactically.

Get play-testing it!

The rules should be as simple as possible, so there might be a lot you can shake out of the current set.
 
Pin said:
Anywhere on the table seems aggressive. Presumably unless the opponent's king is in a cluster, you could place yourself for a shot to pocket the king, and the opponent would have to move your ball on his next shot. I guess you could bluff with a fake assassin...

Worth trying anywhere on your half? (Also for wrongfully pocketed.)

I like the concept. I don't think it's going to appeal to the majority of pool players, but if it works in practice, it could give the players a lot to chew over, tactically.

Get play-testing it!

The rules should be as simple as possible, so there might be a lot you can shake out of the current set.
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Yes, it needs playtesting and simplify the rules as much as possible.

Your tactic could work, but remember: only the kingslayer (=2 or 10), the assassin (=?secret) and the King can kill the King. So I could place the 2 or 10 behind the King but you'd indeed immediatly move the King or bump away the ball that's just placed.
Another tactic is to recruit (place) the 8 (or 16) on a spot where you attack two balls.

Recruiting a ball is really good! But you don't get to shoot, so it's also a moment without progress.

It just really needs playtesting :) Thanks for your response! I hope to record something someday soon.
 
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I'll soon playtest Kill the King and will rewrite the openingspost in a more clear and concise way.

Also got a gorillapod and will try to shoot some video. Videos by phone and from the side are terrible though. And my play has never been semi pro, but it is what it is.
 
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Okay, I have a proposition for playtesting: People could play out a game using the chalkysticks pad, to see how it works. It would need a sensible mindset - playing for realistic (not too difficult) shots and assuming you usually got them, maybe sometimes throwing in a miss. (The point isn't to win, but to see whether the game works.)

Then it could play like correspondence chess.

I've placed the 8 and my first ball (I'm solids and the headspot side of the table). I think that if you place your ball and click save, the page URL will update and you can copy-paste the new URL for me to use.

ChalkySticks Pad

ChalkySticks Pad is an advanced billiards / pool diagramming tool. Recreate any pool situation on a variety of different table types and share with others.
pad.chalkysticks.com pad.chalkysticks.com
 
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