Break cues - Does the butt have an impact?

[WobblyStroke]

So the change in squirt throws off the player's habitual aiming technique. That's likely (at least for a short while until the player adjusts), but not just for less squirt (smaller tip) - also for more (larger tip).

In other words, this isn't a "smaller tip" issue.

pj
chgo

Right. Both would require an adjustment and in my experience I was used to the small tip as it was my go-to cue so any subconscious adjustments for a consistent mishit would be tuned to this cue. I simply played better and wasn't plagued with the same level of misses with the bigger tip. Despite going back and forth hoping that maybe it's in my head or just short term variance, the big tip was pretty consistently performing better for me. After a while, with the kinks worked out of my game and oil back in the arm, I went back to old faithful (small tip) and get the best results I have gotten out of any cue (kinda why it's old faithful to begin with). But there has to be something to the small tip thing as I'm not the only one whose gone through something like this.

 

[hang-the-9]

So the change in squirt throws off the player's habitual aiming technique. That's likely (at least for a short while until the player adjusts), but not just for less squirt (smaller tip) - also for more (larger tip).

In other words, this isn't a "smaller tip" issue.

pj
chgo

Yes it will work in both directions but depends on how the player mechanics and aiming are. Not everyone has issues with a smaller tip or a larger tip when swapping. A smaller tip introduces more flex as well. Could be lots of reasons, but there is just way too many people saying how something caused an issue to just be imagination. If say 80% or 90% said "no issues with changing shaft diameters" then I can see maybe the rest had some mental thing they were adding into their playing, but it's closer to 50/50. It's like the idea that some shafts add more umph to the shot, like the Revo. If 90% said no, 10% said yes, I would tend to side with the 90% as facts. But it's again 50/50, including myself and every person that tried my Revo, all said the same thing. There I am going to stand against those that don't agree simply because I personally witnessed otherwise not just in my experience but with a dozen others, where not one of them contradicted it.

I also had the experience of a smaller tip in basically the same shaft that I did not like as much as a thicker one. The Players HXT LD shaft, I owned both a 12.5mm (modified from 12.75) and the 11.8 version. The 11.8 version just made some shots do odd things, just did not feel steady on getting movement out of the cueball of pocketing for me. But the shaft was the same design, just different diameter, and the smaller shaft was less deflecting due to the less end mass.

 

[fastone371]

Not sure what you mean by ass but I have the same results. When I am rusty a bigger tip and a couple ounces heavier than my featherlight cues usually works best. When I get back in stroke the lighter cue with a smaller tip suits me better.

Most of us aim down the center of the shaft so if anything a smaller shaft should hit closer to where we aim. Although I understand what PJ is saying and he is correct in theory, I have had the same results as you. I think the reason is simple, deflection. Naah, not the deflection we love to talk about but the deflection in the tip and ferrule when we hit the ball off center.

While PJ is correct that the same radius tip has the same contact to a degree, that doesn't consider that when we hit closer to the edge of a tip, particularly a small tip, it has greater distortion than hitting closer to the center of a tip. The larger tip may have a larger contact patch and that patch always has more support from the rest of the tip.

I don't know exactly why the bigger tip works better when I am rusty. In fact, it doesn't matter why, much more important to know it does work better. Back in my early days of dirt tracking I spent a lot of time reading books and articles, understanding the science of setting up a car. I used this information to set my car up. Then I went to the race track and walked around quietly snickering at the flaws in the layout and set-up of the old men's race cars. Then I got my ass kicked by the cars the old men built!

Hu

Dirt track guys practice a lot of misconception. It is not unusual for teams to walk around and see where everyone is hanging lead on the car so some guys will make styrofoam look like lead to deceive copycats. Its best for young racers to figure out how to be fast their own way rather than trying to copy someone else's set-up. I'm sure that you figured that out though. There's always more than 1 way to skin a cat. When my kids were kart racing we went to a dirt oval for the first time. We were by far the fastest kart out there in early practice, I figured that we were golden, we will kick ass and win all of their prizes. How wrong I was. The track changed, I didnt know that it changed and that it could change so drastically (I fully understand that dirt tracks evolve, but I thought it would take high HP cars and a lot of laps to change so much) we were dead slow the rest of the night. I even put the spare motor on thinking that maybe it was going away (maybe even 2 of them, I forget or least I would like to). Itt seemed like I always ended up setting the kart up for the previous run, I was just always behind after our first run.

 

[ShootingArts]

Dirt track guys practice a lot of misconception. It is not unusual for teams to walk around and see where everyone is hanging lead on the car so some guys will make styrofoam look like lead to deceive copycats. Its best for young racers to figure out how to be fast their own way rather than trying to copy someone else's set-up. I'm sure that you figured that out though. There's always more than 1 way to skin a cat. When my kids were kart racing we went to a dirt oval for the first time. We were by far the fastest kart out there in early practice, I figured that we were golden, we will kick ass and win all of their prizes. How wrong I was. The track changed, I didnt know that it changed and that it could change so drastically (I fully understand that dirt tracks evolve, but I thought it would take high HP cars and a lot of laps to change so much) we were dead slow the rest of the night. I even put the spare motor on thinking that maybe it was going away (maybe even 2 of them, I forget or least I would like to). Itt seemed like I always ended up setting the kart up for the previous run, I was just always behind after our first run.

(off topic, just rambling)
I made one good move setting up my car, if a wee bit dangerous! I mounted my fuel tank tight behind the driver's seat. It was inboard of the four wheels where I tried to get as much weight as possible, plus as the track got slicker as the race went on, the car shifted weight to the right side, or out of the left side, same difference.

Midseason or so I had worked most of the bugs out of my car and I was doing a pretty good job of staying out of trouble on the track. With a little time on my hands I got creative! I had a full tunnel with the driver in a cockpit and the wind tunnel running from middle of the transmission hump, straight up to the top of the firewall and dash, straight across to the passenger door. I grabbed some scrap aluminum and built a nice clean little box, 6"x6"x4" high. Riveted it right on top of that tunnel where God and everybody could see it!

Everybody wanted to know what was in that box. "Nothing, just an empty box." I had guys climbing over, under, and through my car trying to see what was in that box! After a month or six weeks everyone was used to the box so I got out my drill. Took the box off and drilled a hole in it just big enough to squeeze two fourteen gauge electrical wires through, a red and a blue one. Tied them together where it wasn't possible to pull them out of the box. Then I ran the wires to the top of my wind tunnel and same thing, small hole and a knot. A few people tried but there was no snatching those wires out!

Funny thing, while I would bend the rules to the limits, my cars were always legal. Helping friends, I didn't bother with such restrictions!

My car was down one week, I don't remember why. Met up with another driver who wasn't racing that night, at the beer box naturally. He wanted me to come meet his wife. We went up into the stands: "Marie, this is Hu." A blank look. "He drives the number 49 car." Still blank. "The red '57 Chevy."(It was a late model then, been awhile.) His wife exploded! She yelled, "That son of a ... Oh, how are you doing?" A sweet smile and a butter wouldn't melt in her mouth voice. "Yes ma'am, that son of a bitch!" A few beers later we were great friends. I'm sure you know the story but we would hammer and bang on each other on the track if necessary, then be at somebody's shop the next night helping get their car together. Loan each other anything we had too.

I was too big and heavy to drive carts seriously. I knew guys that did, envied them. I did drive sprint cars a little, a blast!

Hu

 

[fastone371]

(off topic, just rambling)
I made one good move setting up my car, if a wee bit dangerous! I mounted my fuel tank tight behind the driver's seat. It was inboard of the four wheels where I tried to get as much weight as possible, plus as the track got slicker as the race went on, the car shifted weight to the right side, or out of the left side, same difference.

Midseason or so I had worked most of the bugs out of my car and I was doing a pretty good job of staying out of trouble on the track. With a little time on my hands I got creative! I had a full tunnel with the driver in a cockpit and the wind tunnel running from middle of the transmission hump, straight up to the top of the firewall and dash, straight across to the passenger door. I grabbed some scrap aluminum and built a nice clean little box, 6"x6"x4" high. Riveted it right on top of that tunnel where God and everybody could see it!

Everybody wanted to know what was in that box. "Nothing, just an empty box." I had guys climbing over, under, and through my car trying to see what was in that box! After a month or six weeks everyone was used to the box so I got out my drill. Took the box off and drilled a hole in it just big enough to squeeze two fourteen gauge electrical wires through, a red and a blue one. Tied them together where it wasn't possible to pull them out of the box. Then I ran the wires to the top of my wind tunnel and same thing, small hole and a knot. A few people tried but there was no snatching those wires out!

Funny thing, while I would bend the rules to the limits, my cars were always legal. Helping friends, I didn't bother with such restrictions!

My car was down one week, I don't remember why. Met up with another driver who wasn't racing that night, at the beer box naturally. He wanted me to come meet his wife. We went up into the stands: "Marie, this is Hu." A blank look. "He drives the number 49 car." Still blank. "The red '57 Chevy."(It was a late model then, been awhile.) His wife exploded! She yelled, "That son of a ... Oh, how are you doing?" A sweet smile and a butter wouldn't melt in her mouth voice. "Yes ma'am, that son of a bitch!" A few beers later we were great friends. I'm sure you know the story but we would hammer and bang on each other on the track if necessary, then be at somebody's shop the next night helping get their car together. Loan each other anything we had too.

I was too big and heavy to drive carts seriously. I knew guys that did, envied them. I did drive sprint cars a little, a blast!

Hu

There is no doubt that there is as much sharking in racing as there is in pool.

 

[ShootingArts]

There is no doubt that there is as much sharking in racing as there is in pool.

Speaking of sharking, the front bumper on the fifty-seven was solid and heavy! When I built my next car, cry again guys, a '67 Camaro, I built my front bumper out of 2"X4" steel tubing. Capped the ends of the bumper and it was quite manly looking. Thing was, to rein in my own proclivity to use my front bumper it was made out of 0.08x" sidewall tubing. I could easily lift it with one finger in the middle. It could be used but only with great discretion. However with the ends capped the bumper looked quite intimidating!

Hu