What happened to the dumb rules video?
Dr. Dave’s VNEA Vegas Experience
- Thread starter dr_dave
- Start date
I haven't heard yet, but I will ask. For those interested, here it is:
The VNEA committee was voting in Vegas whether to change the 45 degree rules or not. I'll report back when I hear the results.
Thanks for reposting it. Looked all over thinking bah censorship, bah politics. Glad you got the right people's attention.
FYI, the rule change passed and will go into effect in September before fall leagues start.
This is where the slope rating comes in with golf handicaps as I understand it. A given hazard or difficult playing condition affects different players differently. Golfers do have individual dispersion patterns on shots. New stats and analysis use this. For instance, if we brought players to a hole with a 240 yard carry over water, any player on the PGA Tour would be able to carry it with ease and the water is never in play. For some players (many more than will admit it) the hole is unplayable. Extreme example. But a particular bunker hurts an average player more than a tour pro. Both for the ability to avoid it and what happens to the player after being in it. How it is dealt with in FargoRate I dunno, that is for Mike Page. But I suspect the rating is just fine across players who established their rating on different equipment is different areas. A particular player may have more trouble with a particular condition than another similarly rated player, i.e. one can adjust to smaller pockets easier, the other can adjust to humidity or slow cloth better.
This will be interesting to see in the case of Baseth Mocaibat. He doesn’t travel internationally, and he has 216 games in Studtown. He seems to play three World Champions often, so he has a connection to to global network. Now they’re shipping in global players, and he’s up 30-23 in a Race to 90 against (a jet lagged most likely) Gorst. So this touches on Studtown as well as familiarity of conditions. We assume this is in the Sharks arena and not the chicken farm.
If Baseth ends up beating Gorst at the same rate come day 3, then we need to see what he does if he travels abroad. Is 200 games the minimum established limit? Feels like it needs to be a couple thousand unless Baseth is really that much above even the other Filipino players. That would be scary, His current FargoRate is listed as 861.
I'd say we have enough information on him to say with pretty high confidence he is above 810. About half of those 200 games are against unestablished opponents
tomatoshooter
Well-known member
861!?!? Wow. the highest I see listed on Fargo right now is Filler at 842. This guy sounds terrifying, I hope we get to see him play some top international events soon.
Will his challenge match against Gorst count (Baseth 90 - 86)? Or do they have to enter the results in your database (assuming they aren't). ?
Fargo is based on the 6 degrees of Kevin Bacon.
Or something similar, no other system is as accurate.
We won't put it in as a one-off match. Amongst other things, the decision whether it will go in needs to be made before there are match results for a one-off match. As an example Gorst and Oscar have a race-to-15 match that is in the system because they chose in advance to record it in Salotto. The alternative is we are somehow able to gather a whole series of the public streamed high-level matchups in Philippines. We could possibly then make the decision to put in the group (like there is a whole group of old TAR matches in the system.).
I guess I don’t understand as we have viable data here that can be confirmed by the match being recorded. What good is the data if we don’t use it? If we only use certain information we will never have accurate ratings.
If you begin deciding after the fact to include scores it can bias the data. Let’s say player A asks Fargo to include a match because they won 21-0 (or lost 21-0) but stays quiet on matches with a undesirable result. Or you only know about a match because it was notable. While that isnt what is happening here, but you need a consistent criteria for inclusion to keep everything consistent.
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If the data is available and able to to verified by reliable sources then it should be used.
I get what you’re saying, but in this particular case, this was a streamed one-on-one Race to 90 with world class players.
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DeeDeeCues
Well-known member
This may seem valid in a perfect vacuum, but Fargo automatically accounts for all of this.
Imagine three people, Al, Bob, and Carl. Al only plays on diamond with Bob. Carl only plays on Valleys with Bob.
Al and Bob play 10000 games and the score is 5000-5000 after all the games. Can we agree that they are equally skilled?
Bob and Carl play 10000 games and again, the score is 5000-5000. Can we also agree they are equally skilled?
So, if Al=Bob and Bob=Carl, I think we would agree that Al=Carl, yet Al and Carl have never played on the same type of table.
You may still argue that Al will beat Carl on dummond tables. I would argue that we have no evidence that is true and have evidence that it is false. Bob is the equalizer. Your logic would say that Bob makes more balls/table runs on the Valley than he does on dummonds. I may even agree that is true, but would point out that he is even with Carl over many thousands of games. We have no reason to assume that Carl's game would suffer any more going to dummonds than Bob's game does.
Now change those three people to groups of hundreds of people and you have described FargoRate.
My issue with this and other rationales for FR (like 50-100 hours of play) is couching all this in terms of thousands of games.
Bob, Carl, and Joe are not playing thousands of hours. Shoot, I play the same guy more than few four hour sessions and it’s like we’re engaged.
Lou Figueroa
There is no doubt we can't make meaningful conclusions without lots of games. But look at hist last sentence, Lou, "Now change those three people to groups of hundreds of people..." The key--perhaps counterintuitive key-- here is we don't need lots of games between any two people. The equivalent information to what he is describing is contained in a few games each against many people.
It is not that it is not a valid match in some way. But if Fedor beat him 90-60, there wouldn't be a post asking if the games will go into FargoRate. And for the match to be statistically valid, it would need to go in regardless of the score. It cannot go in preferentially when the score is interesting (like here) or when the score is support that somebody you think is underrated is better than his rating.
DeeDeeCues
Well-known member
Let's try this then:. Al plays 10000 different guys on a diamond and wins 5000 games. Bob plays the same guys on a valley and wins 5000 games. Are Bob and Al the same skill level? Who would you bet on? Would it really change based on the table?