This is Ames Mister

L.S. Dennis

L.S. Dennis

Well-known member
"No Bars, no pinball machines, no bowling alley just pool this is Ames Mister!" Now in the shadow of the closing of Steinway, how long do you think a pool room would stay open if they used this as their business model? It's no wonder why so many rooms have closed here in the states with today's business climate. Sad state of affairs for pool in this country.
 
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maha said:
monthly rate is a joke for a room. the regs. pay almost nothing and take up the pool tables. and 65 a month is a steal and will break the room.

maybe give a 100 dollar punch card and lose 5 bucks every hour you use it. that is more than a 50% break for the regs.

the room i go to in florida charges 100 a month or 7 dollars for the day, and all the 9 foot tables are full from noon to 5 when the discount stops. and not one of the players spends a nickel for anything in the room.

and all their monthly players probably doesn't even pay for the one shift of the low wage hourly employee who doesnt give a sh--t about the success of the room.
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During the daytime, the regs cover a lot of overhead with their membership. If you only had 50 members, and just weekend only players would save money paying the $65 membership since that is the hourly equivalent of about 5 hrs of play, it would cover a chunk of the rent producing almost $3,300 a month toward overhead. And during the weekdays afternoons, the pool hall business is notoriously slow and Sierra Billiards opens at 2pm. Eventually they’d like to open at noon but it’s still too soon having only been in business 6 weeks. For a start up business, the mthly membership takes some of the heat off on covering your fixed expenses with table revenue and counter sales. And the members buy stuff when they’re playing. It may only come to $ 7-10 a player, but it all ads up for a new business. It looks like the kitchen is doing a decent business with specialty items. All in all, it is a smart approach for a new pool hall because replacing that revenue is hard since APA doesn’t pay for table time on the seven 7’ Diamond tables and have leagues 4 nights a week. So the eight 9’ tables are the only source of table income on those nights. The owners are analytical and have studied the metrics very closely. The membership price may go up over time but at the moment, it seems to be the sweet spot since no one has griped as far as I’ve heard. Let’s put it this way. The owners didn’t offer a monthly membership to lose money and no one twisted their arms to do it either.
 
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ChrisinNC said:
$65/month for an unlimited play at any time membership seems ridiculously low. What if you’re practicing by yourself and there is a waiting list for tables?
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I thought that initially too. The members are really local players & so going up to someone to ask if they want play some happens all the time. I play now with more different people at Sierra Billiards than I did before COVID at the few local pool halls in Fresno. Maybe I was a pool snob since I mainly prefer not to play down or give advice so I mostly looked for the best players or a ring game. It seems like the folks I play with are just more available than they were before. I see them, and new younger players that can stroke with the best, coming into Sierra Billiards often.

I still wonder about the long term outlook since I strictly play on 9’ tables. As far as I’m concerned, the 7’ tables don’t even exist. I wouldn’t even venture to that side of the pool room if the bathrooms weren’t located there. So I’m enjoying the unlimited play benefits as long as it continues which I hope lasts awhile. I’ll pay $100 per month because hourly rate pool and even daily rate pool adds up fast vs. a monthly membership, plus all the equipment is absolutely outstanding.
 
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Just some comments on the issue:
The only people REALLY interested in playing on pro-level equipment in a classic environment are likely those old enough to appreciate it (and the associated games). The older generation also has generally accumulated enough wealth that ‘table-time’ rates are largely irrelevant. Slow/day-time practice rates should obviously be reasonable though (so up-and-coming hopefuls aren’t discouraged).
I WAS rather disconcerted by the (never before encountered) procedure in V.B. where players pay a minor flat-fee, and then get to play unlimited all day. While this obviously boosts the bar/food revenues, it discourages serious players, since all the really good tables are then occupied by ‘bangers’’. (I drove cross-country to play on the finest equipment, only to discover it was not available to the general public until the tournaments were over).
BTW: The notice that Tin Man is opening a classic room actually has me considering MN as a potential vacation spot (go figure).
I have to wonder: Did the owner of ‘Ames’ stay open all night just to collect the extra table time? (nothing even hinted at in the ‘Hustler‘ movie). Like any card room, there was obviously a cut forwarded from any major action. While not necessarily legal, I’m sure the tradition hasn’t disappeared. Any modern pool room that attracted noteworthy action would probably expect the same, which could be a nation-wide draw in itself (?). Just musing. Any construction/remodeling design should also include a ‘private’ area, with the finest equipment. All bar/food amenities should be merely for customer convenience, not profit. If it take membership fees to ‘float‘ it, then so be it. (count me in). Until all us dinosaurs finally die off, we need a place.
 
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ChrisinNC said:
$65/month for an unlimited play at any time membership seems ridiculously low. What if you’re practicing by yourself and there is a waiting list for tables?
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Sign up for time slots. Just like you do at the ymca for a racket ball court. That way no one person can hog a table to himself for hours on end.
 
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sammylane12 said:
I don`t know man, I think you would lose your ass. So a guy walks into your place and wants to play by himself for 2 hours. Doesn`t want food or drink, just pool. Is it going to cost him $40?
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Back in the 80's when I'd go down to Frankfurt, GR to gamble at the Billiards Cafe, playing 8 ball last pocket with a player called the Professor for a $1,000 Marks a game, ($500usd) the room owner would shut down the other 2 tables near the one we were playing on because there was standing room only because everyone wanted to watch. The owner of the room would go around to everyone watching and either collect a bet, or tell them to leave because he didn't allow watching for free. After he collected and covered the next round of bets, he'd signal us that we could go ahead and play the next game. This would go one for hours and hours, always having to wait after every game for the room owner to collect and cover new bets, and kick out anyone just standing and watching. I don't know how much the owner made on some of those nights, but one night after I had won over $10,000usd, he gave me a tip that amounted to another $10,000usd!!!

How many times have you seen people just standing around watching 2 top players going at it, being entertained, for free!!

If I were to open another room on the basis of $20 an hour for table time, my policy would be to all the watchers, keep something to eat or drink in front of you at all times, give your receipts to the players your watching to cover their table time and keep watching, or leave because customers pay, watchers leave! Not making any money off of you anyway, so I've lost nothing when you leave either!!!
 
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If you want a pool hall to survive you need to cater to the Non-players. You need alcohol, food, loud music and probably some gimmick. If it's a BYO place you need to be in a plaza with food and a liquor store. Regular players are not paying the bill.
 
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maha said:
in any business if you cater to the cheap crowd then you have to have a tremendous volume of them or you go broke.

as an aside, why would you let the leagues play for free. everyone needs to pay table time even if they eat and drink.
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Nah the free table time is well worth it. You get a lot of people in the room. They drink and eat as they're there for 3-4hrs. That adds up. During the playoffs this last session, I made my way to the hall near me on a Thursday expecting to wait an hour for table as it is usually rammed. Well, it was more than half empty with playoffs hosted by a different spot that night. I'm sure the room made a lot more money off the free table league nights.
 
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I've talked a lot of my bar accounts into changing the way they offer free pool on Sundays. If a bar has more than 1 table in it, then only open 1 for free pool, leave the rest closed for pay pool. Then the customers that only show up to play for free, still have a table to play on, but they only get 1 free, if the waiting list gets to long, they can always pay to play on the other tables. If someone keeps winning on the 1 free table, they soon find themselves playing by themselves too, because the players move to the pay tables so they can play as they pay, and don't have to get on the waiting list again for the free table.
 
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maha said:
in any business if you cater to the cheap crowd then you have to have a tremendous volume of them or you go broke.

as an aside, why would you let the leagues play for free. everyone needs to pay table time even if they eat and drink.
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Because $20 an hour in food and drinks neutralize the $20 an hour in table time, but to add both together is punitive, and you'll get neither. To charge $20 an hour for table time alone, you won't get hardly anyone to pay it. BUT, spending $20 an hour on food and drinks is money well spent, and the $20 an hour for table time is irrelevant, because you're not having to pay it anyway, unless you food and drinks bill comes up short when compared to your total table time, in which case the customer still gets charged for the shortage.
 
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DynoDan said:
Just some comments on the issue:
The only people REALLY interested in playing on pro-level equipment in a classic environment are likely those old enough to appreciate it (and the associated games). The older generation also has generally accumulated enough wealth that ‘table-time’ rates are largely irrelevant. Slow/day-time practice rates should obviously be reasonable though (so up-and-coming hopefuls aren’t discouraged).
I WAS rather disconcerted by the (never before encountered) procedure in V.B. where players pay a minor flat-fee, and then get to play unlimited all day. While this obviously boosts the bar/food revenues, it discourages serious players, since all the really good tables are then occupied by ‘bangers’’. (I drove cross-country to play on the finest equipment, only to discover it was not available to the general public until the tournaments were over).
BTW: The notice that Tin Man is opening a classic room actually has me considering MN as a potential vacation spot (go figure).
I have to wonder: Did the owner of ‘Ames’ stay open all night just to collect the extra table time? (nothing even hinted at in the ‘Hustler‘ movie). Like any card room, there was obviously a cut forwarded from any major action. While not necessarily legal, I’m sure the tradition hasn’t disappeared. Any modern pool room that attracted noteworthy action would probably expect the same, which could be a nation-wide draw in itself (?). Just musing. Any construction/remodeling design should also include a ‘private’ area, with the finest equipment. All bar/food amenities should be merely for customer convenience, not profit. If it take membership fees to ‘float‘ it, then so be it. (count me in). Until all us dinosaurs finally die off, we need a place.
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Ames stayed open late because it was located in Times Square…….where the ball drops on New Year’s Eve.
It’s been said and written NYC never closes or so it seems if you live there and night life in that city abounds.

Well, Times Square is an epicenter of activity & Ames was positioned to observe it all from its 2nd floor loft.
The owners kept Ames open late because the best action in NYC happens after midnight & people know it.
 
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Here's the reality of things today! If pool players want to have a place to play pool on 9fts, then they have to do more than just play pool, they have to be more like everyone else going to the pool rooms, they have to become customers, because as just pool players, they don't and won't, keep anyone's doors open for much longer!!
 
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Bavafongoul said:
Ames stayed open late because it was located in Times Square…….where the ball drops on New Year’s Eve.
It’s been said and written NYC never closes or so it seems if you live there and night life in that city abounds.

Well, Times Square is an epicenter of activity & Ames was positioned to observe it all from its 2nd floor loft.
The owners kept Ames open late because the best action in NYC happens after midnight & people know it.
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Typecast as a Pool Hall

Q. Didn't they shoot the pool scenes in ''The Hustler'' somewhere in New York?

A. Indeed they did. The classic 1961 pool movie, starring Paul Newman as Fast Eddie Felson and Jackie Gleason as Minnesota Fats, used the Ames Billiard Academy in Times Square, a second-floor loft at 160 West 44th Street, at Seventh Avenue, for its on-location pool hall.

Just off camera during the weeks of shooting was Willie Mosconi, then the national pocket billiards champion, who shot for Newman in the close-ups (Gleason, a hustler himself, did his own shooting). Mosconi also had to set up shots easy enough for the actors to polish off when the scene called for it.

The pool hall was deliberately dirtied up to help underscore the film's seedy mood, with a cracked-paint job, knee-high spittoons and a faded poster reading ''Please do not spit on the floor.'' In fact, the real Ames played host to the New York State three-cushion championships in the 60's. (For some players, three-cushion is to pocket billiards as Dom Perignon is to Night Train.)

New York added real larceny to the local color during the shooting: two municipal electrical inspectors were arrested and charged with trying to shake down 20th Century Fox to overlook any electrical violations on the set.

Changing pastimes and the decline of Times Square took its toll on Ames. ''The place later became a hangout for those just kicked out of the movie houses at 4 in the morning,'' the owner, Abe Ames, said in July 1966, when the poolroom closed its doors. Furthermore, all the hustlers were playing elsewhere in big-money tournaments, thanks in part to the success of the movie that Ames helped bring to life.


A high-rise tower occupies that block, and the poolroom's corner now houses the studio for the ABC show ''Good Morning America.''

And here's a piece of trivia for would-be hustlers: The film's working title during the New York shooting was ''Sin of Angels.''

source: https://www.nytimes.com/2004/05/02/nyregion/fyi-428493.html
 
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realkingcobra said:
Back in the 80's when I'd go down to Frankfurt, GR to gamble at the Billiards Cafe, playing 8 ball last pocket with a player called the Professor for a $1,000 Marks a game, ($500usd) the room owner would shut down the other 2 tables near the one we were playing on because there was standing room only because everyone wanted to watch. The owner of the room would go around to everyone watching and either collect a bet, or tell them to leave because he didn't allow watching for free. After he collected and covered the next round of bets, he'd signal us that we could go ahead and play the next game. This would go one for hours and hours, always having to wait after every game for the room owner to collect and cover new bets, and kick out anyone just standing and watching. I don't know how much the owner made on some of those nights, but one night after I had won over $10,000usd, he gave me a tip that amounted to another $10,000usd!!!

How many times have you seen people just standing around watching 2 top players going at it, being entertained, for free!!

If I were to open another room on the basis of $20 an hour for table time, my policy would be to all the watchers, keep something to eat or drink in front of you at all times, give your receipts to the players your watching to cover their table time and keep watching, or leave because customers pay, watchers leave! Not making any money off of you anyway, so I've lost nothing when you leave either!!!
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It`s starting to sound a little complicated.
 
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I own a room in Ventura Ca. Stiix Billiards. This business is tough as we've seen pool rooms close in bunches in the 70's, kick in again in the 80's due to the Color of Money craze and begin a decent in the 90's and continue on from there. Look it's about Overhead period. You can make a living selling dirt if you can keep the overhead down. Leagues are and will be the salvation of pool as we know it today. No mistaking that fact. So how you corral that and serve your specific community needs is the question. Trying to own the building is very important. I was lucky, I own the building and made it through Covid. Paying rent in NY has to be like climbing up a hill that's greased down. Most pool rooms that make it are on the fringes of the city they operate in. Difficult to be in the high rent districts and you got to have parking at least in Cali. That's difficult as well. Anybody who thinks they know it all and haven't had the pleasure of making payroll and their monthly bills shouldn't be telling the rest of us how it's done. LOL
 
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