Professional level according to Fargo

[justadub]

I think more than the top 7 would cap out in APA. There are about 40 women in the US that are over 600. I know players around 550 that have capped out in APA.

Perhaps that would happen in 8-ball, SL7 being the max. In APA 9-ball, I haven't seen an SL9 around here that was under 600.
Admittedly, we don't have a lot of SL9's, either

 

[Zerksies]

I think more than the top 7 would cap out in APA. There are about 40 women in the US that are over 600. I know players around 550 that have capped out in APA.

No 550 is capping out in the APA

FargoRate Pool Player Rating System - Billiards and Pool Principles, Techniques, Resources

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[rharm]

No 550 is capping out in the APA

FargoRate Pool Player Rating System - Billiards and Pool Principles, Techniques, Resources

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I'm just under 550 and was a 7/8 in APA. A teammate was 570 and 7/9 in APA.

 

[Cuedup]

A game.

In order to be a sport something has to have a chance of being killed.

More players have died at the pool table than on the basketball court.

A sport.

 

[The_JV]

Do we think there would be a lot more Shane/Filler/Ghorst's that arrive on the scene? So that we had 32 players all 830 and higher? Or would the number of players that high remain similar, and the lower fargos would become more populous?

Both...

If you build stacks of money, they will come. Some will be >800, far more <800.

 

[FastManners]

To change the subject slightly, let's pretend pool became a major sport, with international monthly events of 128 players. Each event had a top prize of 1MM, and a 32nd place prize of 50K, and the top players were endorsed by the shoe companies to boot Do we think there would be a lot more Shane/Filler/Ghorst's that arrive on the scene? So that we had 32 players all 830 and higher? Or would the number of players that high remain similar, and the lower fargos would become more populous?

I am pretty sure that there would be far more 830+ players. You would get the likes of Jordan Shepherd and Gareth Potts giving 9 ball a serious try, they are both absurdly talented. Not that anyone would come in and immediately be top tier, but the super talented cueist's from other games (Chinese 8 ball, snooker, english 8 ball, etc) would be incentivized to really put the time in to become good.

 

[MitchAlsup]

A game.

More players have died at the pool table than on the basketball court.

A sport.

Hunting is a sport (some would call war a sport)
basketball is a game.

 

[cookie man]

Right, but what's the cutoff for that? We tried to include a 775 on our Master's team and were told he couldn't play.

Not sure if there’s a cut off. Could also be dependent on local operator

 

[Cuedup]

Hunting is a sport (some would call war a sport)
basketball is a game.

Moving the goal post.

Sporting goods stores are a good start on what is considered sports equipment in a culture.

 

[hang-the-9]

Perhaps that would happen in 8-ball, SL7 being the max. In APA 9-ball, I haven't seen an SL9 around here that was under 600.
Admittedly, we don't have a lot of SL9's, either

I'm just over 550 and although I am not in the APA, every APA tournament I play locally I am put in as the max. I have played against some 8s and "normal" 9s and can play even with them. There are a few high 9s that are over 600 however, but only a couple, most of the better players don't play in APA. So if your area has a lot of those, that will keep the bellow 600s down to the 8 level.

 

[hang-the-9]

Not sure if there’s a cut off. Could also be dependent on local operator

I am pretty sure anyone 750 and up would be considered too good for any APA league, even Masters. I feel even 700 is a bit strong for the APA. If you have even a chance playing even against a pro player, should not be allowed in the APA, unless they raise the level caps.

 

[hang-the-9]

My new goal in life is now to be that terrible player who gets that coveted sponsorship. I can see it on SVB’s Facebook page now “Welcome to the Cuetec Team!…some APA 5 out of Louisiana????”

I have seen quite a few not good players get equipment sponsorship, not sure about money for travel and tournaments. It's more about exposure and being in the right place at the right time. My son was the best or second-best player in his junior league in New England, won several state championships, won Vegas trips by winning all ages tournaments when he was half their age or less, was top 8 in the country for 4 years, but players a full level under him got sponsors and free cues, he never got offers.

 

[Jimmorrison]

To change the subject slightly, let's pretend pool became a major sport, with international monthly events of 128 players. Each event had a top prize of 1MM, and a 32nd place prize of 50K, and the top players were endorsed by the shoe companies to boot Do we think there would be a lot more Shane/Filler/Ghorst's that arrive on the scene? So that we had 32 players all 830 and higher? Or would the number of players that high remain similar, and the lower fargos would become more populous?

If the scenario you describe, actually occurs, 99% of today’s players get run over. It’s unavoidable, because you would be drawing from a much larger group. This group would be about 100 times bigger.

 

[maha]

being a pro at something is all about making living money at it. that is the definition of a pro.

playing pro speed is what most are talking about. and that is about attaining a level of play that is equal to or near the very best at the sport.

two entirely different things but many lap over into both.

 

[MitchAlsup]

Sporting goods stores are a good start on what is considered sports equipment in a culture.

Do sporting goods stores in states with highly restrictive gun laws still consider hunting to be a sport ?

 

[Chicagoplayer]

Nope.

Why?

 

[tomatoshooter]

The AZB Money Leaderboard shows there are barely two dozen players who can claim to 'make a living' from pool tournament winnings. Over halfway through the year Number 24 has won just $33,062. If the player keeps to that average winnings he or she would gross about $57,000 for the year. But that is the gross income, not the net. Real expenses draw this amount way down - things like entry fees, transportation, meals, and hotels. Another expense is practice time, which will either be the amortized cost of a home pro-quality 9' table, or several hours table time at a pool hall every week. If a real pro lives in the US they have to account to the IRS, and possibly pay SSDI tax. AZ's own reporting of winnings makes a case that there isn't enough money in 'pro' pool for more than a few to make a living on tournament winnings.

Of course a few players will get comp time on almost any house table anywhere. Another few will have sponsor's logos on their apparel, which will likely net them as much or more than their tournament winnings. Some will get sponsors to buy equipment - cues, cases, gloves, gadgets, etc., and maybe even underwrite tournament expenses.

There will always be the winnings from gambling, often using backer's money. But one does not need to play pool well to gamble on it.

Pool is hardly a sport, yet. Calling it a hobby with tournaments might be more accurate.

Yeah, going by the AZB leaderboard, you could make a strong case that pro pool players are functionally nonexistent. There are like 800 Major League Baseball players, and just as many AAA players. The AAA players are making a living, although it's pretty minimal at the low end of the pay scale. As it is right now, even a fabulously talented and dedicated player doesn't have a legitimate chance of supporting themself.

 

[RADAR]

Fargo rating is the true leukemia to pool! Rating must of been a liberals idea!

 

[tomatoshooter]

I agree about the range being narrower the better a player is. When looking at Fargo numbers, we need to always remember we aren't looking at the players "skill level". We're looking at their win percentage versus their opponents. It would be easy for a 750 player to run into a couple of hot hands in a single tournament and their "tournament performance rating" would be like 400 fargo, while their opponents would be 900 . I know it would balance out over the long run.

Yes. I've heard the +/- 50 point thing, when you and your opponent normally miss 1 ball out of 20, missing one more really lowers your odds of winning. If you and your opponent miss 5 out of 20, missing a sixth ball has far less impact on your odds.

 

[sjm]

To change the subject slightly, let's pretend pool became a major sport, with international monthly events of 128 players. Each event had a top prize of 1MM, and a 32nd place prize of 50K, and the top players were endorsed by the shoe companies to boot Do we think there would be a lot more Shane/Filler/Ghorst's that arrive on the scene? So that we had 32 players all 830 and higher? Or would the number of players that high remain similar, and the lower fargos would become more populous?

Under those standards, the level would rise so high it's almost inconceivable. Yes, many crossovers would succeed (as we've seen, English 8-ball crossovers like Appleton and Shaw have many major pool titles.) I suspect, however that the bigger issue is that if this kind of money were available in pool, many of those with god-given gifts in sports and games would try their hand at pool as well as the other sports. Some of them would surely be stone-cold killers. Still, I would expect that the guys who win the most majors in pool these days would still be very elite.

PS Have any snooker crossovers won any big pool events? Must admit I can't think of one. Certainly, snooker players Mark Gray and Marlon Manalo had some high finishes, but I'm asking about wins. I recall that Judd Trump was 6/1 odds to win the 2021 US Open 9-ball. I recall telling a friend that he was probably a 4/1 shot to qualify for the last sixteen. He finished 33/48. There's a lot more to pool than showing up and shooting as straight as straight can be.