I have a friend that has a Diamond 4 1/2 x 9 table that has very tight pockets. I didn't measure them, but I can attest that they are the tightest I've ever played on. He's having his table re-felted in August and I asked if he was going to have the pockets opened up a bit. He said he had considered this but someone told him that they would have to cut back the cushions to do so. I set up a few of my own tables years back (always Brunswick tables) and there was enough play in the positioning of the cushions so that the pocket width could be varied by moving the rails in or out a bit. Possibly there is a single position where the rails are supposed to be set, but I know on those tables the pockets could be opened or closed a little by repositioning the cushions. What is the correct way to open up the pockets a little. Is repositioning the cushions out a little acceptable? Thanks for any information you can provide.
Loosening the pockets on a Diamond table
- Thread starter rostym
- Start date
Tight is better.
Yeah no, don't do that on a diamond.
That's your opinion. When I was young and had a good eye and stroke, I used to occasionally play with pool balls on the 9' snooker table at Tulane where I went to college. It improved my eye on shots and when I'd move to the Brunswick (Sport King as I recall) pool tables the pockets looked so wide I could aim most shots at one side or the other of the pocket which did wonders for the ability of positioning the cue ball. Now, at 75 with some issues regarding vision and focus (I have periodic vertigo), I like to play on a table where the pockets aren't so tight that I can't make shots that were simple for me when I was a child. Just not fun. For an up and coming player that is trying to improve their game, OK, tight pockets will make you better and more exacting in your aim. But for me now, I don't enjoy the game as much if I cannot make basic shots in. The game I like is straight pool. Last week in two games to 100 I had three runs in the 20's, two mid and one 28. On my friend's Diamond that's tight, in our last 5 games to 100 I've never run more than 12 balls. Most break shots are incredibly difficult for me on that table. It's just not as enjoyable for me like that. On the other hand, playing on the Diamond has improved my game on the looser Brunswick tables I play on, so I like playing on the Diamond for training, but not so much for the enjoyment of the game. However, If there were only tight Diamond 4 1/2 x 9 tables around, I would not enjoy the game of pool nearly as much. Maybe that's the wrong way to look at it, but it's the way I feel.
So on a Diamond, you would not loosen/open the pockets, or do you mean on a Diamond that is not the correct way to loosen/open the pockets a bit.
True. I'm close to 70 can't even read this text without readers (1.5x - 2x) Fortunately I can see the table and balls clear enough. I even aim contact points but the key for me is the stick and the shot line. It's technique more than eyesight. Tighter the better.
tomatoshooter
Well-known member
Yeah, I've like to hear what he has to say.
Do you know how big the pockets currently are? Will two balls fit just inside the points side by side? Also, how old is the cloth now? I just played on some Diamonds with new gray Simonis 860, and I was stunned at how well the pockets accepted the balls, especially nearer the rails. With a foot more table and over half an inch less pocket than I have at home, shots that I knew were off the second I hit them were sliding in. I fely like I had developed a super power. If shots coming from near the spot aren't going I don't think new cloth will help that, but if it's shots nearer the rails are giving you trouble, the fresh cloth may solve your problems.
Maybe for the start just change the pocket facing?
It's not a job for your average table mechanic. Be VERY careful who you hire to do this job, because if it's done wrong it will be a very expensive fix.
If the pockets were ever extended using thick facings, this would be the easiest way to make them bigger. If the facings are normal facings, the rails and cushions will have to be cut back slightly.
I would first get an accurate measurement of what your corner pocket and side pocket mouth measurements are, what your pocket facing degree angles are and also measure the thickness of the pocket facings.
If it’s a standard Diamond with 4-1/2” mouths and a single 3/16” pocket facing and he finds this is too tight, I’d suggest changing the pocket facing angles inside the pockets without changing the mouth measurement at the front of the pocket. I’m guessing your angle of degrees is likely 143 and if you get this changed to 139, the pockets will play much more forgiving and not rattle balls nearly as much.
Yes, this absolutely has to be done by a professional installer who has experience doing this, or you’ll risk really screwing up your rails.
A simpler fix which would not result in as noticeable a difference, if indeed it does currently have the 3/16” pocket facings would be to replace the 3/16” facings with 1/8” facings. This would increase the mouth measurements to 4-5/8”. However this will not alter the pocket facing angles and balls not hit cleanly may still likely rattle.
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You may have stumbled upon a standard...
If you can't run 50 balls on a particular table, then it's not too loose.
I totally get why you think this table is too tight. If the outside world did not exist, who in their right mind -- would make a pool table tighter, when they haven't mastered it in its present state?
I see both sides of the tight table deal, but I just don't get why so many -- let's call them "non-professionals" want such tight tables.
Now, I would like to tighten mine up a bit, but then again I can run more than 50 on it.
If you can't run 50 balls on a particular table, then it's not too loose.
I totally get why you think this table is too tight. If the outside world did not exist, who in their right mind -- would make a pool table tighter, when they haven't mastered it in its present state?
I see both sides of the tight table deal, but I just don't get why so many -- let's call them "non-professionals" want such tight tables.
Now, I would like to tighten mine up a bit, but then again I can run more than 50 on it.
Perhaps the best solution would be to trade the diamond for a gold crown, in clouding all setup/ labor.
And I'd be wanting to do that trade with a reputable mechanic...the one that would have a gc in storage, know how to set it up and profit from the diamond.
And I'd be wanting to do that trade with a reputable mechanic...the one that would have a gc in storage, know how to set it up and profit from the diamond.
I think this is the best first look at a solution. I know your pain- I have played on the Diamond pro cuts and for games like 14.1; the break shots with the proper steep angles and higher speeds are torture for the non- pro player in most instances. New cloth, highly polished balls, great lighting AND an adjustment to the pocket facing angles inside the pockets of those Diamonds ALL will contribute to a much more friendly table.
Start with these four areas of concentration in your quest for more fun on your table- when all for areas are checked off your list- you should see a difference that may make you happy on the table. If play is still not rewarding enough for you, I would say to speak with the experienced table mechanic whom you have open up your inside pocket angles to see if actually widening the complete Diamond pocket itself is possible to your satisfaction- say 4 6/8 to 5 inches. If not realistic according to your table mechanic, next step would be to swap out your tighter Diamond for a traditional Gold Crown - like a GC4 with those close to 5 inch pockets.
A note here, for all the guys on this site who love very tight pockets, there are an equal number of us guys, like the poster, who are 60s/70s now and still really want to enjoy our first love- straight pool. We all grew up on Brunswick's at close to 5 inch pockets, we are not pros, we can't physically play 5 hours a day constantly, nor do we want to do that. Have some understanding that, although some of us, like me, remain in the competitive pool arena, many of us just want an enjoyable experience on the table, not a torture test.
I don’t disagree. As I get older, it’s just not as easy to step up to the Diamond table unless I play a couple hours every day. Not that I regret buying a Diamond, but I’m sure I’d have more fun on a 4 3/4” pocket table.
Also, despite what other people say, playing on my 9’ Diamond hurts my bar table game. Even on bar tables that have been recovered and in perfect condition. I think people forget that position play is highlighted more on bar tables.
For me precision is an aesthetic vital to the craft of pool. A table should play precisely and have small apertures - no gaping funnels no matter how tough. If I had a premium quality table I'd take a miter saw and cut the rubber myself. No biggie.
take a box cutter and shave the edges lol
You are incorrect. The only way to open them up is to cut them.
Maybe you are correct on a Diamond table. I assure you, I set up several Brunswick tables years back and there is some play in where the rails are located and adjusting the location opens or closes the pocket opening. It may be that you are not supposed to do it on any table, but certainly you can do it on the Brunswick tables I set up.