bpeacock
Well-known member
Yes Fargo has an app. We use it for league play in BCA. You can also quickly look up people's Fargorate.
My Fargorate progression
- Thread starter iusedtoberich
- Start date
Although it genuinely seems to be ignored in terms of functional updates. The fargo app does provide you with some beneficial features. Like your match history. I can view the results of every match I have played that has been entered into the system. Would be waay more useful if they also provide not only yours but the opponent's Fargo rate at that moment in time. ...again another data point they had at the time but don't include.
You can also search for players. It only provides you with their current rating. They need to enable their matches to be publicly viewable. By default it's not. I would think it should be the other way around as most aren't even aware that they need to enable that functionality.
It has a calculator to determine a fair race based on combatant's ratings.
Lastly it contains some level of league data as well, which I have none so I don't really know how beneficial it is.
My main complaint is the lack of accurate trending data. So if you want to track the finer swings in your rating you need to continually screenshot the dashboard and store the images somewhere.
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I agree we can conjure up situations where people have the opportunity to be on the stall and then have an outsized chance of a big payday.
We see the excitement that surrounds these jumbo entry fee events but also have concerns about the perverse incentives they create.
As you probably saw, we did look collectively at the records of the top 4 finishers in the 600 & under OK event you mentioned (the players who got a big return on their $1,000 entry fee) and found nothing surprising. The 8,000+ games in the records had a performance rating of 585. We then separated out to 1,000 league games (all 4 had league games in their records) and found those were also at a 585 performance rating. We then separated out all games where these 4 faced a top player (over 700), presumably in an event where they would be less likely to be on the stall and found once again their performance was right where we expect it. So not only did these four seem fine, if there was a sea of monsters buried in the rest of the field, these four likely would not have emerged at the top.
Still, it's a reasonable concern with the money involved and might not be the same next time. One thing the promoters are starting to do is not allow entrants to keep their match history private. That's a good thing. With public match histories of fellow entrants for upcoming jumbo events people can reassure themselves there is not something weird in the record --two and out 10 times in a row at Joes pool room weekly tournament or whatever--for their fellow entrants. Further, knowing the match history needs to be public to enter a jumbo event will discourage the really bad behavior in the first place. Third, people know if they finish high in a jumbo event, their match history is going to be reviewed perhaps by a lot of people after the fact. That puts a damper on the big reward in the risk/reward equation.
We don't have accurate trending data. We rarely even have approximate trending data with any confidence. When you see a rating change in time, don't think the person's skill is changing in time. Rather think the person's skill is probably staying the same but we don't know what it is. The thing we call a rating is our best estimate of the skill based on the limited data available at the time. As we get more data, we get a better estimate of what that skill is.
Yes, it's a complication that some people have slow changes to their actual skill. That's a subtlety that's very hard to tease out without getting thousands of games a month.
...but is that an issue with fargo...? Seems to me that the problem your facing is the lack of desire to report by most tourney directors and when you prefer to fish...lol
I think the lack of participation is an issue with Fargo yes. How do they recruit td’s to use their product?
Multiple tournaments weekly that will have 20+ players that aren’t interested.
Thanks for the response. I had to read that a few times...lol. The bolded reads like a politician dodging a CNN question about accountability...lol
My simple mind looks at it this way (numbers made up):
- On Jan 1st, 2023 my rating was 650 w/ a robustness of 800
- On the following weekend, I played in an event. Had a decent day against somewhat equally skilled players.
- On Jan 11th, my fargo stats get updated. I'm now a 652 w/ a robustness of 850
- On that same weekend, yet another event. Not so good.
- On Jan 18th, my fargo updates. I'm now 651 w/ 885
I just looked at the app and there seems to 5 data points on the trend graph between 12/01 and 04/01. That's considerably less then what we'd see with weekly updates. Although finer details would be cool, even just the key stats on those 5 days would provide insight to players. Things that fargo doesn't care about. Like how it correlates to my tournament activity, practice time, etc...
I don't see it that way... If you're a player with several thousands of games in the system then weekly/mthly peaks and dips are of little consequence to the overall picture. I'd wager for more players are in situations more similar to mine. Where in we don't get the opportunity to get performance data into the system very often, and dips/peaks effect us more readily.
Maybe I see Fargo as a more powerful tool then most, or even its creator. However I also prefer to view things in real time and not get drowned by statistically logic that nothing is valid unless it has millions of data points.
Why should they..? Recruit TDs that is. Did someone recruit rooms and TDs to use the ridiculous and arbitrary letter system..?
That's like blaming auto manufacturers for people not wearing seat belts.
I have found that there are literally two breeds of pool players. One group that wants to improve and know how they measure up against others. The another group would rather hide their spd or lack there of. Either because they fear the reality of their actual skill, or they think there's some angle they can work to take advantage of others. There is of course the edge of the coin that would represent those honestly ignorant of Fargo. However if the TD presented the opportunity of Fargo then they'd all fall into either of the first two groups. Much like there's lots of people around the world that actively choose not to wear seat belts despite the Big 3's efforts to provide them.
That's amazing. Big entry tournaments have "always" been the stomping grounds of backers putting in top pros. That's it. Once in a while a well to do amateur will put up the entry fee, but that is very, very, few and far between. Now, with average players having a chance, they will put up 1000. That's something I would personally do if my rating was in the 550 range and of the 800 min. But on the other hand, I'd never put up 1000 to enter a legit open event where only the top pros entered.800 robustness required. They are filling these up with 128 players!
Coos Cues
Coos Cues
So a guy like me sitting at 603 could easily pare that under 575 by October via league play. Two problems with that kind of scam though. First my recent match history would stink to high heaven. And if you finished high it would be scrutinized. Second a legit 603 is not an overwhelming favorite to win that event. A slight favorite in all matches but not THE favorite particularly. Probably just end up out a grand plus travel expenses with a reputation as a cheater.800 robustness required. They are filling these up with 128 players!
With 800 games already in the system you'd have to dump real hard against notably weaker talent to reach 575 by October. Not saying you couldn't just that it would be very obvious. If they cared to check...
Not that this is a motivation for Fargo, but this is yet another good reason to have somewhat accurate trending available on the app. Imagine they post this tournament to happen in October like they have but the criteria for entering is a snap shot of your current rating a month prior, or within weeks of the event being released. Any 'point shaving' could only be so minor that it would be inconsequential.
The guy who won the OKC tourney was a teammate of mine when I lived in Tucson.
He was not much of a gambler but he plays often, mostly on the 9 footers.
His fargo rating was accurate imo. On a good day he could perform near 600 speed but I'd put his average around 580.
He's a great kid and no cheat. I would bet you could not find a person in town with something bad to say about him.
I prefer how MOB draws a number in a window say, 550-575 and requires players to be below the number drawn at the time of the drawing and within 10 pts at tournament time.
He was not much of a gambler but he plays often, mostly on the 9 footers.
His fargo rating was accurate imo. On a good day he could perform near 600 speed but I'd put his average around 580.
He's a great kid and no cheat. I would bet you could not find a person in town with something bad to say about him.
I prefer how MOB draws a number in a window say, 550-575 and requires players to be below the number drawn at the time of the drawing and within 10 pts at tournament time.
Coos Cues
Coos Cues
I have a team mate with legitimate health issues who has been losing an average of 6 out of every ten games in league for a while. His skills have dropped that much, hopefully temporarily. He went from a 550 to a 502 in one league season. His robustness is close to 3k
I think you're overstating the case a bit, John.
Yes, he is 502 now and he was 523 a year ago. In that time, though, he played in
2022 and 2023 summer league divisions,
winter league division,
Fall (9-Ball) Western BCA team event
Fall (9-Ball Western BCA Singles event
Spring (8-Ball) Western BCA events team event
Spring (8-Ball) Western BCA Singles event
mini tournaments in both Fall and Spring
Coos Cues
Coos Cues
Ok time flies by what was he two years ago?
I don't believe I have any way to know that without having tracked it in advance do I?
Even with access to LMS?
Edit: Sorry I forgot I can view historical score sheets. He was a 553 two years ago.
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Well, I'm going backwards. My unestablished rating is the worst it's been yet.
I played again last Friday, against two way stronger opponents I've known for 20 years. I went 2 and out. My combined score was 1 win and 8 losses.
I was playing this event as a 550, whereas the same event the prior week I played as a 475. I have not cashed in any of these events, so I'm surprised my "tournament rating" changed that much. Still, I think I'll end up about 550 when all is said and done, so I'm not complaining. No action this week after the tourney.
It seems to take exactly one week from the date of the tournament using Digital Pool brackets, until they show up in the fargorate system. I don't know if that is typical, or something specific with my tournament director. Maybe he has to approve things, and he doesn't get to it for one week. I have no idea.
I also bought the fargo app. I had bought it 3 or 4 years ago and cancelled it after one year, since I had zero games and it gave me no extra functionality over the website. I decided to try it again, paying for one month only instead of one year. I can see all my match history. I sure wish it showed the fargo ratings and robustness of me and my opponents at the time of each match, and where they are currently.
On a plus side, I played in a 16 player bar room tournament last night in Atlanta. Most of the field were bangers. I won, they all thought I was god, and it was good for my ego
Did that tournament report to Fargo?
No, I doubt anyone there knew what Fargo was. They were going by APA ratings. I told them I've never played in any leagues, but I was a good player and can run out. I watched one guy play, and said I was like him, and to make me whatever his rating was. He was the only one there that could play. He was an 8 I found out later. Then I hit balls with another guy, and he told the TD to make me a 5. I won my first 2 matches as a 5. They bumped me to a 6 for the rest. I won the event and they said I'd be a 7 the next time. I said "I told you guys to make me whatever that one guy was". ha ha. I bought everyone a round of drinks so they wouldn't be mad. But actually we all had a good time, we were all shooting the sh it each match, everyone said they were really impressed watching me, and were wondering why I was playing position the way I was, and they invited me back. This place is a 15 min walk from my house, so my goal was just to make friends there and have a fun spot. I don't drink at all, so I typically avoid bars completely. But this place seemed to have players that took the game seriously, and only drank a little. (At least for this weekly Thursday tournament. The other nights are just people drinking and on dates).
Edit to add: they had an in-house handicap chart. So for a 6 rating playing a 3 rating, the race was 6-2. And it varied for each rating pair, etc. The finals match was me 6 vs another 6, we both raced to 4 games. The chart went from I think 2 to 9.
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