finding the degree of your eye dominance

[pagaspoling]

We're only discussing one parameter: cue alignment.

I thought we where discussing eye alignment. And in order to find how to align the cue you have to factor in many parameters, isn't that right? Lets say I aim "learned distance from where I’d aim it without side spin" to an object ball and miss, how can I know if my original aim point (the one without spin) was off or if had the right target but misaligned my "learned distance"?

 

[Patrick Johnson]

I thought we where discussing eye alignment.

Eye alignment with what? That's what we're discussing.

pj
chgo

 

[pagaspoling]

We're only discussing one parameter: cue alignment. I know by the results which direction it's off, and can estimate the amount.

Eye alignment with what? That's what we're discussing.

I'm trying to be thorough and ask some good questions while also trying my best to present my ideas and thoughts. I don't think you are making very good contributions to our discussion and also bring a very boring tone to an interesting topic. You are not really presenting any good answers to why its better to align your eyes to the cue either.

I also had a question in my last post that i think you missed?

Lets say I aim "learned distance from where I’d aim it without side spin" to an object ball and miss, how can I know if my original aim point (the one without spin) was off or if had the right target but misaligned my "learned distance"?

 

[Patrick Johnson]

...how can I know if my original aim point (the one without spin) was off or if had the right target but misaligned my "learned distance"?

Like I said: by experience.

How do you know which is off with your method?

pj
chgo

 

[pagaspoling]

Like I said: by experience.

Thats really good to know, then anybody in reading this will get an really good insight in your process and how to get better while aligning their eyes to the cue. Very good info!

I already answered that:

I can also get feedback if the trajectory had more or less squirt/swerve than i thought. And if I hit the correct spot but miss any way I will know my GB was misplaced or maybe I got more or less throw that I thought.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

I can also get feedback if the trajectory had more or less squirt/swerve than i thought. And if I hit the correct spot but miss any way I will know my GB was misplaced or maybe I got more or less throw that I thought.

So maybe this or maybe that. What's the advantage again over sighting along the stick?

pj
chgo

 

[pagaspoling]

That you aim to the thing you actually want to hit and that you eyes is always aligned to the same spot for every given pot.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

... aim to the thing actually want to hit

For you that's the thing you want the CB to hit.

...and that you eyes is always aligned to the same spot for every given pot.

For every given pot exactly like that one - different cut angle and/or different spin = different spot.

For a side spin shot you can sight the CB/OB line or you can sight the cue stick line - either way you're sighting one and estimating the other. It's not obvious which way is "better".

pj
chgo

 

[garczar]

I'm so right-eye dominant that if i cover it i fall over.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

I'm so right-eye dominant that if i cover it i fall over.

You're so right-eye dominant that if you cover it I fall over.

pj <- what else could it be?
chgo

 

[z0nt0n3r]

so today i went to the ophthalmologist and he did several tests on both of my eyes. he said first of all that my eyes were very healthy, (no myopia,astigmatism etc) and that both of my eyes have almost equal dominance. my left eye is just slightly more dominant but he said the difference is so small that i might as well play with the cue between both eyes.

from my experience playing center-chin and playing slightly under my left eye makes a big difference, like i said in the beginning of the thread i play way more consistently under the left eye ( which i've been playing for about 2 months now since changing from center-chin). although the answer seems obvious, what do you guys think i should do?

 

[WobblyStroke]

For every given pot exactly like that one - different cut angle and/or different spin = different spot.

For a side spin shot you can sight the CB/OB line or you can sight the cue stick line - either way you're sighting one and estimating the other. It's not obvious which way is "better".

this.
as entertaining as the back and forth on cue sighting vs ball sighting was, both end up in the hands of the subconscious for adjustments and I dont really see any advantage of one over the other.

While it might be nice to be able to differentiate between a miss due to miscalculating the aim point or the amount of squirt with the balls method, it really has no value re performance because the adjustment is the same so there is no disadvantage to not knowing this. the nature of the miss requires the same adjustment.

personally i align to the cue. yes shots look different depending on what spin im using....because they are different. but now that i know what they look like, my aiming is largely subconscious. the shot looks right or it doesnt. and that rihht look was learned from experience with the ghostball as a nospin reference. works just fine. Actually sawa Niels Feijen vid where he explains his aiming the same way.... keep it simple : use ghostball as a reference and hit shots with spin till u know what they should look like. Niels does alright with it.

 

[snookered_again]

I dont know if it was mentioned but here's how we were taught in archery..

stand still and point to something, stay steady. close one eye and then the other without moving your pointing finger. the object will appear to move from alignment of your pointing finger. It'll move more when you close your dominant eye.

I found my left eye is dominant, also I dont have the muscles to close my left eye and not my right but I can wink the other way..
If Im on the phone or computer lots and strain my eyes then look at car tires , they appear lile the car is sitting on the road. as if the car has really really low profile tires.

In archery , left eye dominance meant I had to pull the string with my left , I found that so awkward I lost interest in archery..

with pool Im sure it affect me but I do my best.. maybe if I video myself making shots I;d learn more about how Im aiming without thinking about it too hard.

I like the exercise where hes aiming down the middle of the table , then without moving the cue, looking down noting how well his cue is actually alligned with a mark under the butt end.

personally I think Im stll finding my way. maybe if I dont worry too much Ill just find that natural position and find that perhaps I make slight adjustments without relaizing it. I thnk videoing myself might help me loook at myself with the cue without stressing or thinking about it.. I may find Im consistent or maybe not. I will say I do seem to have days wehn Im spot on accurate and others where Im terrible so that tells me Im inconsistent, why? , that's a big question.

funny how it seems that quite often I can see another player is lined up or not because Im looking from behind the object ball.. Its usually not the best time to tell the player as he's lining up and the distraction isnt' goood but often I feel I could just yell stop and correc the other player. I refrain because it's bad practice but Ive had other more experienced players say things like the cue wasn't' under my chin and I missed because of that.

one showed me to aim like Im shooting a ball down the rail , wiht both balls on the rail, then look down to see if my cue is actually straight to the rail.. Its similar to what he video showsexcept hes in the center of the table.

one part bugged me, the way hes using a ball to tap on the other ball over the spot, I feel he's he wrecking the cloth in a rather sensitive spot by compacting it. I've been shown that the right way to place balls in snooker is to put the ball near the spot and then roll the ball onto it rather than continuously being in the habit of dropping the ball down hard right on the spot.. doing that, over many times creates a spot where the ball wants to sit, or stop, or even wear through to a hole there.. My impression that this is not good practice if you care about the cloth. he had a nicer way, using the paper hole repair ring things.

 

[FranCrimi]

so today i went to the ophthalmologist and he did several tests on both of my eyes. he said first of all that my eyes were very healthy, (no myopia,astigmatism etc) and that both of my eyes have almost equal dominance. my left eye is just slightly more dominant but he said the difference is so small that i might as well play with the cue between both eyes.

from my experience playing center-chin and playing slightly under my left eye makes a big difference, like i said in the beginning of the thread i play way more consistently under the left eye ( which i've been playing for about 2 months now since changing from center-chin). although the answer seems obvious, what do you guys think i should do?

Slightly under your left eye sounds right.

 

[snookered_again]

I wonder if tilting your head has a similar effect. I might be doing that too.. I think when I get playing on my own table at home I will set up a camera, that way I can review it and look at how Im situated when im not thinking about that. If Im conscious of it then I may just be more focused upon my alignment.. If I were to practice for a few days and review my video there would be times when Im just shooting in my natural way, and not focused upon such details. I thought doing that may help me note my mistakes in stance a bit more consciously and maybe I'd see such things better from a perspective of looking from the object ball towards myself, or the shooter.

personally Im asking myself , am I subsonsciously making quite natural adjustments, with my head position to compensate for my strong eye? or have I simply developed bad habits that I need to focus upon correcting?
food for thought..

I htink if I try to "tune into" it and make compensations, that's different from what I may just naturally do. by being "Tuned into" this I'm not just shooting naturally, Im being aware. What I want to observe is how I play when I am not thinking about it at all, and in a more natural stance.

 

[pagaspoling]

So I'm really trying to just use logic here, I have no problem if this feels incorrect for som players or not. Im just trying to figure out which method makes the most sense, and of course I know that experienced players will do this subconsciously. I was aligning my eyes to the cue a couple of years ago and if I know myself correct I will probably try it in a couple of years again..

The biggest advantage I see with the eyes to ball method is that we split our estimations in two groups and to be able to differ them from another. If you play on new conditions and miss your Ghost Ball because its slick and the ball didn't swerve you will be able to correct this on all upcoming shots in the match. Same thing if you hit the ball where you wanted but wasn't predicting the throw correctly. And this is evaluation is possible because I always look att the Ghost Ball.

I don't say you cant see what went wrong with the eyes to cue alignment, of course a experienced player can, but theres no built in function to evaluate this in this method since all three parameters are grouped together. And then you are looking to different spots on all shots, to me that does not feel like a confidence booster.

But as I said, I'm just thinking out loud and trying to find the best possible way, that I can imagine, to play this game that I love.

 

[pagaspoling]

Actually sawa Niels Feijen vid where he explains his aiming the same way.... keep it simple : use ghostball as a reference and hit shots with spin till u know what they should look like. Niels does alright with it.

Do you take stance advice from someone with one leg as well?

No but seriously, if we all aimed with one eye theres no doubt the eye to cue alignment is the best one.

 

[WobblyStroke]

Do you take stance advice from someone with one leg as well?

No but seriously, if we all aimed with one eye theres no doubt the eye to cue alignment is the best one.

Okay...so we have one advantage for sighting with the cue...for the one eye aimers.

I used Niels as an example bc he has a nice youtube channel and a fargo north of 800. he certainly isnt alone or even in the minority in his approach. The KISS (kerp it simple, stupid) method can be applied to many things and aiming is def one of em imo. regardless of how one sights a shot, a good chunk of aiming has to be handed over to the subconscious. experience sharpens that. it's not like anyone is consviously calculating " this is my spot, now add this much for deflection, then subtract this much for swerve back at this speed....". Eventually u see the shot and just hit it.

i dont think it matters much whether u learn to see the shot by lining up balls or looking down the cue. as long as you build up a mental database of shots and can recognize them, u will do just fine. the same shots come up all the time in pool. learn to see em how u see em and hit the thing. players have been sighting down the cue for generations without a problem. it's nice that there are other opyions like uours but I don't think there's any inherent advantage to either...save for the one eye aimers

 

[pagaspoling]

he certainly isnt alone or even in the minority in his approach.

Sources? It is easy to sound credible with an argument like this but this is just an guess I think?

The KISS (kerp it simple, stupid)

Yes, in my coaching I think its important that I teach the best methods that I find or can come up with. It's not something I'm always going to communicate to a player and if a player uses the other approach I'm not going to change that unless the player is asking me about alignment. For many players all things in the technique and setup can be learned subconscious so the role of a coach is mostly about handling the game and emotions around the table. Many players that wants to have lessons is very inquisitive so in that settings I want to have a good method that I believe in and can coach well. I think that you confuse the use of the KISS method, it is very good for a player playing the game, but not to a coach trying to understand the game at a high level. It's not like golf coaching reached the level it is at because a bunch of coaches thought KISS...

it's not like anyone is consviously calculating " this is my spot, now add this much for deflection, then subtract this much for swerve back at this speed...

Still this process is what has to happen in order to find the sight line in this method. So whether you are making it consciously or subconsciously you will still aim to a spot based on three estimations. If you aim to the ghost ball i think it is easier for our subconscious to make the adjustment based on a fixed aim point and I think any player not thought otherwise will use the ball line method. Of course any method can work at a high level but I think some concepts are just a bad interpretation (usually a coachs) of what actually happens in great players. I just trying to prove that the notion of aiming down the cue line is better, like many coaches think, are not necessarily true.

 

[WobblyStroke]

Sources? It is easy to sound credible with an argument like this but this is just an guess I think?



Yes, in my coaching I think its important that I teach the best methods that I find or can come up with. It's not something I'm always going to communicate to a player and if a player uses the other approach I'm not going to change that unless the player is asking me about alignment. For many players all things in the technique and setup can be learned subconscious so the role of a coach is mostly about handling the game and emotions around the table. Many players that wants to have lessons is very inquisitive so in that settings I want to have a good method that I believe in and can coach well. I think that you confuse the use of the KISS method, it is very good for a player playing the game, but not to a coach trying to understand the game at a high level. It's not like golf coaching reached the level it is at because a bunch of coaches thought KISS...



Still this process is what has to happen in order to find the sight line in this method. So whether you are making it consciously or subconsciously you will still aim to a spot based on three estimations. If you aim to the ghost ball i think it is easier for our subconscious to make the adjustment based on a fixed aim point and I think any player not thought otherwise will use the ball line method. Of course any method can work at a high level but I think some concepts are just a bad interpretation (usually a coachs) of what actually happens in great players. I just trying to prove that the notion of aiming down the cue line is better, like many coaches think, are not necessarily true.

You can rifle through the books yourself, but from what I've seen, ghost ball and aiming down a cue like a rifle are by far the most common approaches. Maybe a youtuber can tackle this one and go to a tournament and ask the players if they aim down the cue. My guess is, that most players will give them a puzzled look and say, 'of course'.

Bob stated he is firmly in the down the cue aiming is better and I'm sure many agree. PJ and I are more in the it doesn't really matter which as, I at least, don't see any advantages to lining ball centers over aiming down the cue as would intuitively make sense to most people unless they were taught otherwise.

I'd honestly be shocked if under 80% of top players aimed down the cue. If I were to guess, I'd guess it is well north of 90%.