Removing GC2 Formica On Rails

UHMW tape is neat stuff, Ive used it and its is very bendable, has a sticky backing , extremely high wear resistance. a bit expensive. Ive never seen it wide enough to do rails , but maybe it could be found? it has a very low coefficient of friction, Things slide on it very well.

fake wood is so common and Ive always hated the stuff. i can see though, how you'd want to keep a Gold Crown original. I think myself I'd sway towards using real wood , then you could get the ribbon and beauty of real wood. a really nice veneer can look so much nicer and more brilliant than some faked wood like pattern on plastic. It could look like some birdseye maple or nice black walnut or maple contrasting with walnut, or many beautiful things.

at work they have a thing like a sewing machine. it will make a sort of wig wag pattern of glue that dispenses like string, its looks similar to dental floss, but it's actually more like glue.. Its purpose is to very accurately piece together intricate designs in veneer, then they apply that as a sheet using a hydraulic veneer press.. You can do some really neat things like that.
 
rexus31 said:
Have you played on a Gold Crown? The curve is very slight. Laminate can most certainly adhere to the curvature so long as a quality adhesive is used.
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sure I do often, I just couldn't recall from memory exactly how tight of a radius you are dealing with,, if it rolls over more toward the edges.. if it's is just slight, then maybe that's not a problem at all.
 
I think the best thing ever used for rails was Dymondwood, its a shame the factory burned down and its not available anymore. It doesn't surprise me that a quality automotive paint holds up well, it can really take a lot of abuse on cars.
 
I went went with a friend to claim a free 10 foot slate table, I found it and figured he might like it, so we arranged our move ..
we go there and had a look , started unbolting rails and realized , this thing is a real piece of made in china junk, a lot of that laminate was peeling from humidity, we bolted things back and said sorry this thing isn't for us,, it had copper corners and they were really thin metal.. We left it there. It was sort of a GC fake.. I bet there are lots of others, that one wasn't worth the time to bother with or the space it would need to occupy.
 
Well since the GC2 has the old school glue that requires mechanical removal I think I'll opt to leave it as-is. Just wanted to be sure as this will be my last opportunity for a while. It's really too dinged up to mess with trying to prep for painting.

At work we used to use a solvent based contact cement but went to water based years ago because of EPA regulations. That's why the old ones were stuck so good, they has the super toxic glue lol.

FYI horizontal grade HPL laminate is not very common any longer. We typically use post grade for hand laminated applications and vertical grade for full 4x8' sheet pre-lam applications. Either would stick to this application easily I'd you used any kind of decent contact cement.
 
sneaky_pete said:
Well since the GC2 has the old school glue that requires mechanical removal I think I'll opt to leave it as-is. Just wanted to be sure as this will be my last opportunity for a while. It's really too dinged up to mess with trying to prep for painting.

At work we used to use a solvent based contact cement but went to water based years ago because of EPA regulations. That's why the old ones were stuck so good, they has the super toxic glue lol.

FYI horizontal grade HPL laminate is not very common any longer. We typically use post grade for hand laminated applications and vertical grade for full 4x8' sheet pre-lam applications. Either would stick to this application easily I'd you used any kind of decent contact cement.
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Could You not use a bit of body filler to fill the dings before preparing for paint?
 
TrxR said:
Could You not use a bit of body filler to fill the dings before preparing for paint?
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That's what I did. Mine had the usual dings from balls, scaring on the aprons, and cigarette holes in the laminate. Easy to fix.

Painting is not a quick job to do it right. The equipment isn't hard to use until you actually lay down paint. I'm faaaar from professional.
 
snookered_again said:
Im pretty familiar with cabinetry too but the thing with the GC rails. I believe they are made similar to a typical countertop with a curved backplash. I think they used a mold to hold the formica and then with heat and pressure formed the particleboard rail. the bonding of the rail, I imagine as part of that original molding process. its similar if a shop were to make a countertop with a particleboard backsplash wiht it's typical curvature. a cabinet shop wouldnt own that sort of specialied press so they may buy that sort of countertop.



the problem , as I see it is that it is curved and so you might use something like a hydraulic clamp to hold your Formica to the surface , but it will wan to spring towards being flat without heat being used to keep that curved form to the formica, otherwise you are basically expecting the glue to forever hold the pressure of the Formica wanting to return to its flattened position.

if you used a thick veneer and not formica that may work , If you were to make a formed curved mold and heat he formica up to try to make it permanently accept the bend , that may help. If it were wood it may be happy enough to be bending across its grain. you could remove the formica and replace it with a thick rosewood veneer? black walnut maybe?

if you were to use the wrong paint then it may not stick or it may wear though, I'd think about something like imron epoxy paint. and sand the formica to get enough hook that the paint sticks, after that maybe auto paint with a clearcoat. epoxy will not stick well to many plastics, especially if they are smooth, It might stick if you were to say roughly sand it with 120 or so.

I believe the sides are flatter and this would present less of a problem, I think I'd just save the old ones and maybe just try to recreate those using the OEM ones as a pattern. maybe use decent plywood and a nice veneer or similar.
I have a cheaper 1970 4x8 made by brunswick , I was thinking of doing similar. painting the rails re creating the side pieces..
Im not sure Illl use it, maybe donate it to some one.. or I had an idea ot use it's slate to trim out my fireplace ;-)

you can get thin plywood with all it's laminates running the same direction , Normal plywood has its plys in alternating directions. that stuff can be bent conical like a pipe to about a 6" diameter.. Its kind of interesting, I believe it's called "rubber"

if you wanted to put a bend in particleboard you might try a mold and experiment heating it, you may find you cna instill a permanent bend. I dont think I'd rely on glue to keep that sort of form permanently because although you may be able to form the curvature and use glue to hold it, the stress will always be there and I think it will win over the glue bond eventually. I think heat needs to be used to remove that stress and make the Formica "want" to lie with a curvature.

laquer is pretty good at sticking to anything, that might help, it has less cratch resistance than formica. I have a little brunswich with wood rails and I re laquered it, used a toner than clear lacquer.. the rest of it has OEM laquer , and it wasmade in about 1964, the laquer finsh is otherwise wearing very well. you can get laquer in any color, its easy to spray, smells a but that dissipates fast.
laquer is different from other coatings in that it melts into itself, becomes part of it's underlying layers. car paint or epoxy does not, that sticks by it's "hook" alcohol spills do wreck laquer jobs, same with shellac. epoxy is very tough.
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There is NO particle board used in making ANY GC's, let alone in the rails, I've corrected your statement before about referring to PARTICLE board GC rails. And placing the rails in VACCUM bags is the best way to hold the formica finish to the POPLAR rails, then place them in front of a heater for a day!
 
Wow, I guess I was extremely lucky to find a GCI that spent its entire life in a private home, not a single dent or worn spot on the rails. The only wear from now on will be from me.
 
you can get special primers for plastics. I'd be tempted to just sand to 400 grit then use 2 part epoxy, then you can use glazing putty , bondo etc if you like and finish just like you would a car, maybe base coat clearcoat or what you like. things like ball dents will fill easy, If it's cracked or de laminating that's different. If you wanted to get into faux painting you can , or easier to just do a solid color.
faux woodgraining is making things look like wood and there are special techniques and tools for that.

if you try to get OEM then you need to get laminate that duplicates the look of Brunswick's color and style of Faux woodgrain.

a good source for info is to contact Mohawk finishing supplies, they have a lot of special wood finishing products and Ive found them great for advice on them.. You wont be the first to try painting on top of a laminate. It's often done with used office furniture for example.
 
At work we used to use a solvent based contact cement but went to water based years ago because of EPA regulations. That's why the old ones were stuck so good, they has the super toxic glue lol.
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When formica (and before and simultaneous with that, micarta laminating) came out, the rubber/solvent base glues were not used.
In factories, often phenol-resorcinal was. And Tite-bond (or Elmers carpenter wood glue, or similar PVA type glues) was sometimes used in custom shops. Either of those makes a void -free integral bond that is never attained with spray contact cement. Unfortunately, they require presses and a long setting time, so not efficient for cabinet shops that don't really need that level of integrity. IOW, i don't think the early GC rails used contact cement of any kind, solvent or not.

I have never done GC rails, but many other curved and bent laminations. I like a collapsible discharge hose press for simple curves for 2 reasons. 1.) generally more convenient that vac bag. 2.) vac bag can attain aprox 14psi. OTOH collapsible discharge hose is usually good for at least 65 PSI if you want. Fire hose is even higher, but it is not available in wide widths, like discharge hose.

Then again, structure such as an I-beam is necessary to react "the other side of the hose" for that type pressing.
 
sneaky_pete said:
I'm trying to weigh my options on whether or not I want to try and tackle removing the old formica on the top of my rails to refresh my table. How crazy is the old school glue holding it on. Will a heat gun and some lacquer thinner get it off relatively easy? I work in a huge cabinet shop that specializes in HPL cabinetry so I've got plenty of skilled laminaters that can redo it once the old stuff is removed but just worried about getting into it and regretting my decision lol, once you start you gotta take it all the way.
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If you have the time to wait, put the rails in a sub -0 freezer, and freeze them as cold as you can. The freeze drys the poplar rails out, which causes the wood to shrink width wise, and that shrinking is enough to break the bond between the laminate and rail, shearing the laminate off because it don't shrink!! Wood rails have moisture in them because of humidity, and its the moisture that gets dried out of the rails when frozen to below sub zero temperatures.
 
I used this for the Wilsonart laminate top on my ball polisher.


I rolled it on and stacked weight on top during the recommended cure time to ensure a good bond. It provided a very tight bond with no issues when routing to trim and cutting the channel for the stainless trim.

52116959407_37dc786501_k.jpg


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52238469535_5061664c21_h.jpg


53062650237_0a525dc115_h.jpg
 
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fake wood is so common and Ive always hated the stuff. i can see though, how you'd want to keep a Gold Crown original. I think myself I'd sway towards using real wood , then you could get the ribbon and beauty of real wood. a really nice veneer can look so much nicer and more brilliant than some faked wood like pattern on plastic. It could look like some birdseye maple or nice black walnut or maple contrasting with walnut, or many beautiful things.
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If you do that, though, resaw your own veneer, and make it at least 1/10" thick (standard veneer these days is less than 1/32"). I'd prefer 1/8" which would give some sanding and re-finishing options down the road. But even 1/10" might be getting to where it would affect the rail height if you don't take some off the bottom. Also, do not use contact type cements with real wood. It will bubble and debond, only an matter of time whether next week or in a couple years. I like epoxy because it does not introduce any moisture into the bond. But any of the titebond glues would work if you leave it in the press long enough & then let it dry out/equalize for a few days or week before machining.

at work they have a thing like a sewing machine. it will make a sort of wig wag pattern of glue that dispenses like string, its looks similar to dental floss, but it's actually more like glue.. Its purpose is to very accurately piece together intricate designs in veneer,
Click to expand...

That machine is called a Veneer splicer, or sometimes "Veneer stitcher" even though it does not actually sew.
You don't need one for single pieces and simple matches. 3M or Duck brand packing tape works well if you plan the lay-up and sequence.

then they apply that as a sheet using a hydraulic veneer press.. You can do some really neat things like that.
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Not necessary either. Vac bag as Mr Cobra mentions, or fire hose or collapsible discharge hose press. Both easy with normal shop equipment.
 
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rexus31 said:
I used this for the Wilsonart laminate top on my ball polisher.


I rolled it on and stacked weight on top during the recommended cure time to ensure a good bond. It provided a very tight bond with no issues when routing to trim and cutting the channel for the stainless trim.

52116959407_37dc786501_k.jpg


52123952409_1e5ae3d24f_h.jpg


52238469535_5061664c21_h.jpg


53062650237_0a525dc115_h.jpg
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How did you make the feet, did you have to use billet?? What about the chrome ring around the opening? Were you able to use it off of something else or is there a whole/fractional number sized chrome ring catalog that I don't know about?? :):)
 
fastone371 said:
How did you make the feet, did you have to use billet?? What about the chrome ring around the opening? Were you able to use it off of something else or is there a whole/fractional number sized chrome ring catalog that I don't know about?? :):)
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The feet are furniture feet I found online. The stainless bezel around the opening is the top portion of a baking bowl
 
DeeDeeCues said:
I prepped and painted my gci. I wasn't looking for the traditional look, so I used automotive metallic gray and burnt copper. I clear coated the rails and skirts. It's holding up very well.
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Great work and the Devil is in the details. Prep work is 80% of the job. Did you use a Fuji Q5 spray rig?
 
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