Extreme Masse

Tennesseejoe

Tennesseejoe

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I seldom use extreme masse ( bringing the cue ball almost straight back), but sometimes it can be very useful. Lately, miscuing has become a problem and your experiences and suggestions are appreciated. Could a low deflection shaft, a medium hardness tip, Kamui .98 chalk, fast cloth, etc. be the problem.
 
Tennesseejoe said:
I seldom use extreme masse ( bringing the cue ball almost straight back), but sometimes it can be very useful. Lately, miscuing has become a problem and your experiences and suggestions are appreciated. Could a low deflection shaft, a medium hardness tip, Kamui .98 chalk, fast cloth, etc. be the problem.
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All of the product you mentioned will be fine. If you are miscuing, you are probably aiming too far off the cue ball. Think of a full vertical masse shot as a vertical draw shot. Aim the bottom of the tip to be equal with the bottom of the cue ball (viewing from above). Make sure you have a lose wrist. If your wrist is tight at all, you will not get the snap you need. Drive the tip down until it his the table. Also, don't hit this too hard. Like with a draw shot, you don't have to hit it hard to get action. Just a nice lose wrist.
 
I never knew how much I had to feel the table on the extreme masse.

The reaction force from the table has to be felt in the cue before you commit to the stroke.

Its a "push punch" a boxing term.

Buy a quality cue it will do and chalk up.

You want to land the cue on the tip flat. after the strike, but land it gently, to avoid tearing the cloth.

A masse in a quiet room is like a slam dunk, make sure a pocket drop noise is heard after your shot. That is like the "swish" a basketball noise after a clean shot for a ball falling through a rimmed net.
 
It depends on what you are trying to do::

If all you want is the CB to move 6" off line, then an LD shaft with indifferent hard tip and Master's chalk is all you need.

If you want the CB to arc 6" and hit a 1mm spot on OB at a particular point on the table -- well that is an entirely different mater.
 
It sometimes happens that the cloth/ball combination is too sticky to allow the cue ball to slip out from under the cue stick. The vertical pressure virtually glues the CB to the table and nothing good happens. You might try waxing the cue ball or putting something slippery under it.
 
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Bob Jewett said:
It sometimes happens that the cloth/ball combination is too sticky to allow the cue ball to slip out from under the cue stick. The vertical pressure virtually glues the CB to the table and nothing good happens. You might try waxing the cue ball or putting something slippery under it.
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That is what happened....Thanks.
 
It‘s interesting this subject came up: Local club posts game rules dictating ‘NO MASSE ALOWED’. Along with the ‘NO GAMBLING’ signs posted in every poolroom, I had assumed it was just designed to protect the cloth (damaging extreme masse shots). But, a contestant called me on it when I elevated slightly to curve around an obstructing OB with side english. What actually is the true definition of ‘masse’? Was he in his rights? If so, I would never again play where that type of shot was prohibited.
 
DynoDan said:
It‘s interesting this subject came up: Local club posts game rules dictating ‘NO MASSE ALOWED’. Along with the ‘NO GAMBLING’ signs posted in every poolroom, I had assumed it was just designed to protect the cloth (damaging extreme masse shots). But, a contestant called me on it when I elevated slightly to curve around an obstructing OB with side english. What actually is the true definition of ‘masse’? Was he in his rights? If so, I would never again play where that type of shot was prohibited.
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My dictionary said:
denoting a stroke made with an inclined cue, imparting swerve to the ball.
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A league I played in long ago had a limit on the angle of elevation of the butt of the cue. Can't remember but it seems like 45 degrees was the limit. Above that was considered masse less than that was a swerve.
 
DynoDan said:
It‘s interesting this subject came up: Local club posts game rules dictating ‘NO MASSE ALOWED’. Along with the ‘NO GAMBLING’ signs posted in every poolroom, I had assumed it was just designed to protect the cloth (damaging extreme masse shots). But, a contestant called me on it when I elevated slightly to curve around an obstructing OB with side english. What actually is the true definition of ‘masse’? Was he in his rights? If so, I would never again play where that type of shot was prohibited.
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Its up to the venue but I would think it is for vertical masse shots.
 
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DynoDan said:
It‘s interesting this subject came up: Local club posts game rules dictating ‘NO MASSE ALOWED’. Along with the ‘NO GAMBLING’ signs posted in every poolroom, I had assumed it was just designed to protect the cloth (damaging extreme masse shots). But, a contestant called me on it when I elevated slightly to curve around an obstructing OB with side english. What actually is the true definition of ‘masse’? Was he in his rights? If so, I would never again play where that type of shot was prohibited.
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from billiards .com definitions
MASSE SHOT. (General) A shot in which extreme english is applied to the cue ball by elevating the cue butt at an angle with the bed of the table of anywhere between 30 and 90 degrees. The cue ball usually takes a curved path, with more curve resulting from increasing cue stick elevation.
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briankenobi said:
Its up to the venue but I would think it is for vertical masse shots.
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i would think that is true ,,,,you have to be able to swerve a ball when necessary...jmho
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here is a reference for definitions
www.billiards.com

Glossary of Billiard Terms

From the 'Billiard Congress of America Official Rules and Records Book. ANGLED. (Snooker, pocket games) When the corner of a pocket prevents a player shooting the cue ball directly at an object ball. (See corner-hooked) ANGLE SHOT. (Pocket games) A shot that requires the cue ball to drive the...
www.billiards.com www.billiards.com
 
nataddrho said:
Florian told me in person that using an actual masse cue for masses makes a tremendous difference. Perhaps think of buying one?
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at least to start, a normal butt with a shorter and stiffer shaft with a with a 13-14mm tip, strong ferrule will help a lot... a simple Elkmaster tip will do the job.
and depending of the kind of masse , to own 2 butts of different wheights as for example, is a good idea...
 
I think squirt definitely contributes to masse shots, and probably plays a bigger role the more extreme you want it to curve. There's a reason masse cues are larger diameter and heavy, you get more deflection. LD shafts might not to be as good for bigger masse shots.
 
briankenobi said:
Having a masse cue helps for the more aggressive shots. However, there are masse shots that even Florian uses a full length playing cue.
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The title of the thread is “Extreme Masse”.

Why are you hunting for a debate? This forum is starting to annoy me.
 
DynoDan said:
... What actually is the true definition of ‘masse’? Was he in his rights? If so, I would never again play where that type of shot was prohibited.
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A reasonable definition is when you go to sidearm or higher. All players elevate some on sidespin shots and they are not all masse shots.

Some rooms have rules that are suspended for tournaments .
 
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