Cuetec Avid: fiberglass still?!

[tomker]

I friend of mine is looking for a starter cue, and I almost recommended a Cuetec Avid. Skyler Woodward plays with one and people say they're good value for money online.

So I look them up and the shafts have a "glass composite" coating? Uhh, that's fiberglass. Are they still doing fiberglass coatings on their shafts? I thought nobody liked that. No wonder they're marketing it with different terminology now.

Looks like Allison Fisher and Earl Strickland used to play with Cuetec fiberglass shafts but a poster here said they had the fiberglass coatings sanded off. Sounds about right. Can't believe Cuetec is still selling this stuff.

Oh... Cuetec also claims that the coating increases the shaft's stiffness (or "dynamic stiffness," whatever that is). Which is the opposite of what you want for a low-deflection shaft. Great.

 

[garczar]

I friend of mine is looking for a starter cue, and I almost recommended a Cuetec Avid. Skyler Woodward plays with one and people say they're good value for money online.

So I look them up and the shafts have a "glass composite" coating? Uhh, that's fiberglass. Are they still doing fiberglass coatings on their shafts? I thought nobody liked that. No wonder they're marketing it with different terminology now.

Looks like Allison Fisher and Earl Strickland used to play with Cuetec fiberglass shafts but a poster here said they had the fiberglass coatings sanded off. Sounds about right. Can't believe Cuetec is still selling this stuff.

Oh... Cuetec also claims that the coating increases the shaft's stiffness (or "dynamic stiffness," whatever that is). Which is the opposite of what you want for a low-deflection shaft. Great.

Stiff doesn't negate a cues low.deflect. attributes. As long as the front-end is low-mass you're good. CF cues are quite stiff and some of them are insanely low def. I've seen an Avid and the coating is not like the old CT's. Finish seemed quite slick.

 

[tomker]

Stiff doesn't negate a cues low.deflect. attributes. As long as the front-end is low-mass you're good. CF cues are quite stiff and some of them are insanely low def. I've seen an Avid and the coating is not like the old CT's. Finish seemed quite slick.

A stiffer shaft effectively increases the endmass of the shaft because it allows the elastic wave to travel further down the shaft.

CF cues can be low-deflection only because their insanely low mass overcomes the effect of extra stiffness.

Shaft Endmass and Stiffness Effects - Billiards and Pool Principles, Techniques, Resources

Answers to frequently-asked questions about the effects of shaft endmass and stiffness on squirt in pool and billiards.

billiards.colostate.edu

Stiffness in a shaft is not desirable.

 

[garczar]

A stiffer shaft effectively increases the endmass of the shaft because it allows the elastic wave to travel further down the shaft.

CF cues can be low-deflection only because their insanely low mass overcomes the effect of extra stiffness.

Shaft Endmass and Stiffness Effects - Billiards and Pool Principles, Techniques, Resources

Answers to frequently-asked questions about the effects of shaft endmass and stiffness on squirt in pool and billiards.

billiards.colostate.edu

Stiffness in a shaft is not desirable.

Every good cue i've ever owned was/is pretty damn stiff. That includes most lo-def shafts that have been offered in last 25yrs. Never seen a flexible/whippy shaft that played worth a shit. Don't give a rats ass about waves going down the cue. Doesn't mean crap when it comes to actually using one. Go try to find a good shaft that ISN'T stiff. Good luck.

 

[tomker]

Stiff doesn't negate a cues low.deflect. attributes. As long as the front-end is low-mass you're good. CF cues are quite stiff and some of them are insanely low def. I've seen an Avid and the coating is not like the old CT's. Finish seemed quite slick.

So hmm... thinking about this more... what could Cuetec have possibly changed to make their new fiberglass coating feel different vs. their old fiberglass coating.

Isn't fiberglass fiberglass?

Then it occurred to me that "carbon fiber" is really just a plastic resin with carbon fibers in it, the same way that fiberglass is a plastic resin with glass fibers in it. I imagine the feel of a shaft mostly depends on the feel of that plastic resin, so there's no reason why a fiberglass shaft would necessarily feel different from a CF shaft?

Maybe the new Avid shafts are kinda like the cheap "fake" carbon fiber shafts you can get which are just maple shafts with a carbon fiber wrap on the outside.

 

[garczar]

So hmm... thinking about this more... what could Cuetec have possibly changed to make their new fiberglass coating feel different vs. their old fiberglass coating.

Isn't fiberglass fiberglass?

Then it occurred to me that "carbon fiber" is really just a plastic resin with carbon fibers in it, the same way that fiberglass is a plastic resin with glass fibers in it. I imagine the feel of a shaft mostly depends on the feel of that plastic resin, so there's no reason why a fiberglass shaft would necessarily feel different from a CF shaft?

Maybe the new Avid shafts are kinda like the cheap "fake" carbon fiber shafts you can get which are just maple shafts with a carbon fiber wrap on the outside.

The coating seems to be thinner and slicker. I've only seen those pos pseudo cf-over-wood in ads. Never seen one and i bet i've seen 300 cf shafts in use.

 

[tomker]

Every good cue i've ever owned was/is pretty damn stiff. That includes most lo-def shafts that have been offered in last 25yrs. Never seen a flexible/whippy shaft that played worth a shit. Don't give a rats ass about waves going down the cue. Doesn't mean crap when it comes to actually using one. Go try to find a good shaft that ISN'T stiff. Good luck.

Huh? Low deflection (wood) shafts are pretty much just regular shafts with the front ends bored out to reduce endmass.

It's not like boring out a piece of wood is going to make it stiffer.

 

[garczar]

Huh? Low deflection (wood) shafts are pretty much just regular shafts with the front ends bored out to reduce endmass.

It's not like boring out a piece of wood is going to make it stiffer.

I'm not going to spar with someone who obviously has never used many if any good lo-def shafts. Just because the front of the cue gets out of the way when using Eng. doesn't mean the overall backbone of the shaft isn't stiff in nature. Get outside in the real world an actually try a few. This Rhino i just got is 12.8 with a LONG taper and quite stiff. Its also very low-deflection, almost as low as a 11.75 Z-shaft Predator. Quote all the science you want, i actually have tried LOTS of shafts. NONE are what i would remotely call 'flexible' except for maybe an old 70's Meucci and even that wasn't really all that whippy just a little bit softer compared to the old-school stiff ass shafts of the time.

 

[tomker]

I'm not going to spar with someone who obviously has never used many if any good lo-def shafts. Just because the front of the cue gets out of the way when using Eng. doesn't mean the overall backbone of the shaft isn't stiff in nature. Get outside in the real world an actually try a few. This Rhino i just got is 12.8 with a LONG taper and quite stiff. Its also very low-deflection, almost as low as a 11.75 Z-shaft Predator. Quote all the science you want, i actually have tried LOTS of shafts. NONE are what i would remotely call 'flexible' except for maybe an old 70's Meucci and even that wasn't really all that whippy just a little bit softer compared to the old-school stiff ass shafts of the time.

I've played with a bunch of shafts, all kinds, and wouldn't claim that I can accurately gauge shaft stiffness. Sure, I can hit a ball and feel how the cue reacts in my hands, but the properties of that reaction are going to be affected by every component of the cue. It would be impossible to isolate shaft stiffness from that equation just by feel.

I haven't tried to objectively measure the stiffness of any particular shaft. (Sounds like it would risk damaging the shaft, really.) Have you?

 

[lakeman77]

IMO, Cuetec Avid cues play great. Lots of money made playing with Cuetec cues. That's all you should need to know.

 

[garczar]

IMO, Cuetec Avid plays as good if not better than any cue out there, and I have played lots of 'em. Amazing value, extremely consistent from one cue to the next. Can't go wrong, again IMO.

Heard nothing but good about them. Lot of cue for little $$. Of course science says that you can't have a slick glass coating or a stiff hitting low-def. cue. Or so i've heard somewhere.

 

[tomker]

IMO, Cuetec Avid cues play great. Lots of money made playing with Cuetec cues. That's all you should need to know.

Eh, yes and no, though, right?

Didn't they bring Shane on with the R360 which was conspicuously missing their trademark fiberglass coating?

And now he plays with their CF cues...

I've tried Cuetec's old fiberglass coated shafts and it seemed like every one I tried felt dirty and sticky. Maybe they just needed a good cleaning but this seems to be other peoples' general impression too. If you always wear a glove, I guess the feel of the shaft probably doesn't really matter to you.

The other problem I saw with those shafts is that the coating chips off if gets damaged. Maybe they're somewhat more durable, but if they do get damaged, I can't imagine there's a good way to fix those chips.

 

[tomker]

Heard nothing but good about them. Lot of cue for little $$. Of course science says that you can't have a slick glass coating or a stiff hitting low-def. cue. Or so i've heard somewhere.

I know you're half-joking but, again, CF shafts are stiff and can be LD. It's just that they're more light than they are stiff.

Have you ever handled a CF blank?

They're like a piece of paper. Well, several pieces, but still...

 

[iusedtoberich]

I'm assuming: The coating must be better than that 1990's crap that Earl and Allison played (or advertised at least). Those shafts were sticky as hell and garbage.

Didn't the Cuetec 360 Shane was using for 15 years have a coating, but a new type that felt like wood? Apologies, I never followed the Cuetec brand too closely.

 

[tomker]

I'm assuming: The coating must be better than that 1990's crap that Earl and Allison played (or advertised at least). Those shafts were sticky as hell and garbage.

Didn't the Cuetec 360 Shane was using for 15 years have a coating, but a new type that felt like wood? Apologies, I never followed the Cuetec brand too closely.

No, the R360 did not have the fiberglass coating they were so proud of. It was just regular wood. Which I assume was a tacit confession that the coating was crap.

 

[JPB2]

I friend of mine is looking for a starter cue, and I almost recommended a Cuetec Avid. Skyler Woodward plays with one and people say they're good value for money online.

So I look them up and the shafts have a "glass composite" coating? Uhh, that's fiberglass. Are they still doing fiberglass coatings on their shafts? I thought nobody liked that. No wonder they're marketing it with different terminology now.

Looks like Allison Fisher and Earl Strickland used to play with Cuetec fiberglass shafts but a poster here said they had the fiberglass coatings sanded off. Sounds about right. Can't believe Cuetec is still selling this stuff.

Oh... Cuetec also claims that the coating increases the shaft's stiffness (or "dynamic stiffness," whatever that is). Which is the opposite of what you want for a low-deflection shaft. Great.

It’s a good shaft. Plays great. Better than more expensive stuff I have had. Avid butt takes the duo extension. Can get a cynergy shaft later. I was thinking of getting a cynergy for my Avis butt. But then decided on another but and an extra shaft -1 more butt and 2 more avid shafts for the cost of a cynergy shaft. I have a travel cue and extra shafts now. They aren’t sticky and don’t play cheap IMO. Perfect starter cue. Great value. And Sky plays just fine with one. So do some other good players I think.

 

[garczar]

I'm assuming: The coating must be better than that 1990's crap that Earl and Allison played (or advertised at least). Those shafts were sticky as hell and garbage.

Didn't the Cuetec 360 Shane was using for 15 years have a coating, but a new type that felt like wood? Apologies, I never followed the Cuetec brand too closely.

I think both SVB and Earl had shafts without the fg coating. Earl had Gulyassy shafts on his at one time.

 

[9ballhasbeen]

Avid shafts are nothing like the old Cuetec SST shafts. The finish is more like that of their carbon fiber offerings and they play exceptionally well, especially for the price. Try one, they play great, I personally prefer it over the 314-3.

 

[tomker]

Avid shafts are nothing like the old Cuetec SST shafts. The finish is more like that of their carbon fiber offerings and they play exceptionally well, especially for the price. Try one, they play great, I personally prefer it over the 314-3.

Sounds good, thanks, I will definitely try one when I get the opportunity.

I guess the advertised advantages of the coating are that it transfers more power and it makes the shaft strong enough that the front end can be bored out deeper (i.e., lower deflection). And I suppose it's probably as easy to clean as a CF shaft.

So pretty similar to a CF shaft but I guess much cheaper? Huh. Hard to argue with I suppose.

 

[Renegade4006]

I know that I'm pretty new to the forum so my opinion may not carry much weight but:

I started playing again this year after not playing for quite a while. A bar box game here and there but for the past 3 years I really didn't play.

When I started shopping for a new cue I was introduced to Cuetec and the Cuetec Avid line. My first choice was the Florian Kohler model, but I was too stubborn to pay "that much" for a cue. I then saw the other Avid cues and decided on an Avid Abyss with a 12.75mm shaft (I wanted the Crimson but it wasn't as red as I was hoping). I was amazed at how smooth the shaft felt compared to my older Adam cue. I bought a 10-count value pack of billiards gloves online, and WOW!! does that shaft move well. I really like the factory supplied tip also.

If your friend is looking for a nice cue for a very inexpensive price then I would really suggest he try the Cuetec Avid line. Have him try the different diameter shafts and see what he likes. The 11.75 felt too small and delicate for me. I think the recently introduced 12.25mm would be really nice.