I think the snooker stroke was developed around the snooker cue. That obnoxious taper keeps the tip from dipping as the hand rises.
Elbow drop or pendulum stroke
- Thread starter trob
- Start date
Nah. Joe Davis defined the snooker stroke. Read his books. He is why nearly all snooker players have a piston stroke.
for me the "piston "stroke is a whole another animal regarding elbow movement
for me the elbow drop comes with the "J" stroke
which i think is commonly used among the pros and de[ends on the shot
@Bob Jewett talked about it above
here is dr dave on it
the bold is by me for emphasis
..............................
A “J” stroke is a combination of a pendulum and piston stroke, where the grip hand follows the pendulum motion on the back swing and forward swing into the ball, and then the grip moves in a straight line (with elbow drop) after CB contact and during follow through. If you trace out the path of the grip hand, it looks like a “J” turned sideways. If done well, this gives the benefits of the pendulum stroke tip contact point accuracy, and the follow through of a piston-stroke, but some people might have trouble with dropping the elbow at the right time and right amount consistently.
Many pros seem to be close to a “J” stroke, but some pros drop their elbow before CB contact, on some shots more than others. Also, some lift the tip after CB contact, especially with follow shots, and some finish with the tip down (with an almost-pendulum-like stroke finish). Some even swoop their stroke on some shots (usually only shots with english), moving the tip sideways during the stroke (before and after CB contact). Some drop their elbow just a little after CB contact on many shots, and some drop their elbow a lot (mostly after CB contact) on most shots. The one thing that can said for sure is that most pros drop their elbow after CB contact, especially with firmer shots. Some seem to do this purposefully; and for others, it just seems like a natural side-effect of the forward momentum of the cue and arm after CB contact.
bpeacock
Well-known member
I thought I was the only one! I recently had to put a bandaid on to keep practicing... I was working on big draw shots.
The aforementioned teacher tells his students over and over to have a "soft" shoulder. They tell him it is ..... he feels it and tells them it isn't. LOL Cuz it 'isn't'. I feel that the shoulder plays a huge part in not only the "full swing" (for the break) but pretty much all shots. A good idea (especially when when under pressure) is to loosen it up by "full swinging" as part one's PSR.
If the upper arm has not moved, has the shoulder played a part? If the upper arm does not drop until after tip/ball contact, has the shoulder played any significant role in the shot?
It helped me when a coach said to just keep your shoulder stationary during the stroke.
irspow
Member
I never thought about it from that perspective. If there is no shoulder rotation, there certainly can’t be any elbow drop.
SPF… knuckle to nipple
An elbow drop would be a flaw In your fundamentals. I’m surely not going to miss aim a straight in shot so if I miss it it’s going to be a break down in fundamentals. . I don’t care how good you think you are or how amazing you think your fundamentals are your not a robot. I’ve watched the best players In the world have fundamental break downs and miss shots and since I’m pretty sure your no where near an 800 Fargo or I bet even a 700 your not one of them so I’m sure you do to.
Oikawa
Well-known member
In general, I like to think of my fundamentals in terms of how well they function at their worst (under pressure, with no warming up, when having a bad day, etc.), not how well they do at their best. After trying all sorts of things to find what works best for me, this mentality has led me to a very snooker-esque technique. If a large majority of pros in snooker do something a certain way (for example, chest on the cue, or keeping their body still while stroking), you can be sure there is a great reason for it, even if you don't fully grasp it yet.
I understand the arguments about pool being a different game and therefore some types of shots perhaps having different optimal techniques, but if you are unsure about your technique or are a relatively new player, following the standards of snooker pros is a great starting point.
I understand the arguments about pool being a different game and therefore some types of shots perhaps having different optimal techniques, but if you are unsure about your technique or are a relatively new player, following the standards of snooker pros is a great starting point.
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Here's your comment about "Hunter's" stroke, Bob.
"I notice that his elbow often rises a little. Strange. His elbow does drop a little at the end of some power shots, just like many good players."
My perception for some of the top players (Chohan for one) is that even on the softest of shots the elbow drops and sometimes they'll execute a long follow thru. The shoulder must have a significant role in that long (or even short) straight follow through. I'm no teacher. This is how I would interpret the machinery of the stroke.
Of course, they tell me I have a slip stroke. So ....... LOL
Unless a pendulum stroke is natural
To you - it takes hundreds and hundreds of hours or more to develop a pure pendulum stroke as a conversion from an established elbow drop stroke - ask anyone who tried it and truly succeeded. I am talking hours that are devoted only to stroke conversion - not worth the effort IMO
To you - it takes hundreds and hundreds of hours or more to develop a pure pendulum stroke as a conversion from an established elbow drop stroke - ask anyone who tried it and truly succeeded. I am talking hours that are devoted only to stroke conversion - not worth the effort IMO
True story: in college, I just about wrecked my car due to nipple pain.
I was driving along at 80 mph on I-70 with the windows down, warm Spring day, enjoying life, when all of the sudden my left nipple felt like someone was holding a red hot poker on it. My immediate thought was that a bee had flown in the car and somehow gotten under my shirt, and was now stinging me directly in the nipple.
I yelled in pain and swerved across the slow lane to stop the car on the shoulder as fast as I could. Thank god no car was in that lane. After stopping, with my nipple still on fire, I gently lifted up my t-shirt to look at it (expecting a bee to come out), and nothing was there. It looked fine.
This was weird of course, since the pain hadn't stopped. So I looked closer, and leaned over into the sun coming through the window, and then I saw it: a tiny, short little hair was sticking directly out of the center of my nipple. Apparently my t-shirt had been rubbing on it and pushing it in.
And of course then I remembered that an hour prior I had gone in for a haircut, buzzed on the sides, and it must have been one of my own short hairs that made its way down my shirt and into the most sensitive part of my body, nearly causing a terrible accident.
I carefully plucked it out and the pain was gone.
---
Also true: I've cut my own hair ever since that day.
Again, you have to look at when the elbow drops. Before or after contact? The timing is important.
Which came first, the taper or the stroke?
Well before of course.. lol if it was after it wouldn’t be a problem lol
irspow
Member
I think the basic problem with elbow drop before impact is that the tip will contact the cue in a different place than it was at setup. Generally the tip will make impact higher than it was at setup. I think this is why some pros with early elbow drop set up with their tips lower than they want it to be at impact. In theory, if someone could match elbow rise in backswing with the same amount of elbow drop by impact, they would hit the same contact point as at address. Either way, an early elbow drop probably requires a lot of natural talent and practice to be precise with tip contact point.
Elbow drop after impact will occur naturally if the shoulder does not rotate until upper and lower arm have contacted each other.
Just my opinions. That said, if I was a consistent strong APA 9/7, I wouldn’t be doing much tinkering with my stroke.
