Diamond Table Installation - Special Expertise Required?

F

fritzwalker

New member
I hope to get some advice from you experts here. I'm in the process of purchasing a used Diamond Professional 8-foot table. It has 3-piece slates, and drop pockets. The person I'm buying it from lives about 500 miles away in Georgia, so I'm going to have to hire someone to take apart the table and get it ready for transport, probably someone else to transport it, and then finally someone to install the table at my home in the Richmond VA area. I have several questions. (1) I assume I can hire any reputable mechanic to take the table apart and prepare it for shipment. Do you agree? If not, what questions should I be asking, etc. (2) I'll probably contract someone to transport it. As long the table would be securely protected from the elements, and as long as they carefully load and unload it, and secure and pad all the parts, no special training or expertise other than the knowledge of experienced movers should be required. Correct? (3) I know Diamond tables have a unique leveling system and perhaps other unique features. Do I need a Diamond factory trained mechanic to install this? Or is this a job that any good, skilled mechanic should have the skills to tackle? Of course, I understand it may be a different matter to identify said good, skilled mechanic!:cool:
 
Obviously you want the best people you can get to do the tear down, move and setup. Diamonds are not especially difficult, but someone with experience with them will definitely be beneficial, especially for the setup and leveling.
Ask table mechanics if they're familiar with the leveling system, if they index the cloth, and what kind of levels they use.
 
fritzwalker said:
I hope to get some advice from you experts here. I'm in the process of purchasing a used Diamond Professional 8-foot table. It has 3-piece slates, and drop pockets. The person I'm buying it from lives about 500 miles away in Georgia, so I'm going to have to hire someone to take apart the table and get it ready for transport, probably someone else to transport it, and then finally someone to install the table at my home in the Richmond VA area. I have several questions. (1) I assume I can hire any reputable mechanic to take the table apart and prepare it for shipment. Do you agree? If not, what questions should I be asking, etc. (2) I'll probably contract someone to transport it. As long the table would be securely protected from the elements, and as long as they carefully load and unload it, and secure and pad all the parts, no special training or expertise other than the knowledge of experienced movers should be required. Correct? (3) I know Diamond tables have a unique leveling system and perhaps other unique features. Do I need a Diamond factory trained mechanic to install this? Or is this a job that any good, skilled mechanic should have the skills to tackle? Of course, I understand it may be a different matter to identify said good, skilled mechanic!:cool:
Click to expand...
How old is this table? Is it the 46"×92" or the 45"×90" playing surface? Does it HAVE a leveling system?
 
Last edited:
fritzwalker said:
I hope to get some advice from you experts here. I'm in the process of purchasing a used Diamond Professional 8-foot table. It has 3-piece slates, and drop pockets. The person I'm buying it from lives about 500 miles away in Georgia, so I'm going to have to hire someone to take apart the table and get it ready for transport, probably someone else to transport it, and then finally someone to install the table at my home in the Richmond VA area. I have several questions. (1) I assume I can hire any reputable mechanic to take the table apart and prepare it for shipment. Do you agree? If not, what questions should I be asking, etc. (2) I'll probably contract someone to transport it. As long the table would be securely protected from the elements, and as long as they carefully load and unload it, and secure and pad all the parts, no special training or expertise other than the knowledge of experienced movers should be required. Correct? (3) I know Diamond tables have a unique leveling system and perhaps other unique features. Do I need a Diamond factory trained mechanic to install this? Or is this a job that any good, skilled mechanic should have the skills to tackle? Of course, I understand it may be a different matter to identify said good, skilled mechanic!:cool:
Click to expand...
Most mechanics will travel and if it were me, I'd prefer to hire someone who can tear down, deliver and setup. The less hands the table passes through the better. I'd check to see if there is a Diamond dealer near your or near the table and see if they'd be willing to take the job.
 
realkingcobra said:
How old is this table? Is it the 45"+92" or the 45"×90" playing surface? Does it HAVE a leveling system?
Click to expand...
Well, you're exposing my lack of knowledge! I didn't know some (I assume early) Diamonds didn't have the leveling system. Is this when they switched from what are referred to as Reds to Blues? Is that indicated by the color of the logo plate at the head of the table? Because on this one is red.

When I was negotiating to buy it I had the owner measure the length nose to nose and he told me it was 90", so I assumed 45 x 90. (I thought pool tables always had playing surfaces with the length 2x the width - shows you what I know if they used to be 92 x 45.) Do you know when they added the leveling system? I'll reconnect with the seller to get a better idea of the age of the table if that would help, and see if he knows if it has the leveling system. And I'll get the playing surface remeasured to confirm.
 
rexus31 said:
Most mechanics will travel and if it were me, I'd prefer to hire someone who can tear down, deliver and setup. The less hands the table passes through the better. I'd check to see if there is a Diamond dealer near your or near the table and see if they'd be willing to take the job.
Click to expand...
I confirmed that the playing surface is 90" x 45" and it's a red label. He doesn't know if it has the leveling system but thinks it's about 6 to 8 years old, and will check his records and also call Diamond to determine age and if it has the leveling system.
 
Sheldon said:
Obviously you want the best people you can get to do the tear down, move and setup. Diamonds are not especially difficult, but someone with experience with them will definitely be beneficial, especially for the setup and leveling.
Ask table mechanics if they're familiar with the leveling system, if they index the cloth, and what kind of levels they use.
Click to expand...
Sounds like good questions to ask! Will do.
 
rexus31 said:
Most mechanics will travel and if it were me, I'd prefer to hire someone who can tear down, deliver and setup. The less hands the table passes through the better. I'd check to see if there is a Diamond dealer near your or near the table and see if they'd be willing to take the job.
Click to expand...
I'm checking with the local Georgia Diamond dealer if they're interested, and will do the same on this end. Clearly the less hands the better risk wilse, but it's 500 miles so I'm thinking that will make it much more expensive.
 
fritzwalker said:
I confirmed that the playing surface is 90" x 45" and it's a red label. He doesn't know if it has the leveling system but thinks it's about 6 to 8 years old, and will check his records and also call Diamond to determine age and if it has the leveling system.
Click to expand...
Blue labels came out in 2010 so its older than you think.
 
fritzwalker said:
I confirmed that the playing surface is 90" x 45" and it's a red label. He doesn't know if it has the leveling system but thinks it's about 6 to 8 years old, and will check his records and also call Diamond to determine age and if it has the leveling system.
Click to expand...
If you can get them to look under the skirts, they should be able to see the heads of some small bolts visible just below the slate if it has the leveling system.

FUVSkI7.png
 
Sheldon said:
Obviously you want the best people you can get to do the tear down, move and setup. Diamonds are not especially difficult, but someone with experience with them will definitely be beneficial, especially for the setup and leveling.
Ask table mechanics if they're familiar with the leveling system, if they index the cloth, and what kind of levels they use.
Click to expand...
Sheldon, I just re-read your post. I'll have to again admit my lack of knowledge. What does it mean to "index the cloth." I poked around on this forum and didn't come up with a simple definition, but I did look at a video you posted about covering a Diamond 7 foot, and it appeared to show carefully marking the lines on the cloth before installation. Does it just mean having guidelines so you're measuring the amount of stretch all around the table and ensuring it's consistent? Also, the home tables I've owned have always had cloth stapled as opposed to glueing. Is that something you do one way or the other based upon the nature of the frame the slates sit on? Is glueing generally superior to stapling?
 
fritzwalker said:
Sheldon, I just re-read your post. I'll have to again admit my lack of knowledge. What does it mean to "index the cloth." I poked around on this forum and didn't come up with a simple definition, but I did look at a video you posted about covering a Diamond 7 foot, and it appeared to show carefully marking the lines on the cloth before installation. Does it just mean having guidelines so you're measuring the amount of stretch all around the table and ensuring it's consistent? Also, the home tables I've owned have always had cloth stapled as opposed to glueing. Is that something you do one way or the other based upon the nature of the frame the slates sit on? Is glueing generally superior to stapling?
Click to expand...
The marking of lines and stretching the cloth consistently in all directions is indexing. This makes a difference. It's *possible* to do a good job without marking the lines, but I don't know of many good reasons not to. You want the weave of the cloth to be nice and straight, as well as evenly tensioned.
I do feel that gluing the cloth to the slate where possible, is superior to staples. Some will argue otherwise, I'm just giving my opinion.
Diamonds are designed to be glued. I have seen people staple the cloth to the plywood of the leveling system, this is a CRIME. (just kidding, but only a little). I've also seen spray glue used, and the cloth tucked underneath the slate. (Definitely a crime :eek:)
 
fritzwalker said:
Well, you're exposing my lack of knowledge! I didn't know some (I assume early) Diamonds didn't have the leveling system. Is this when they switched from what are referred to as Reds to Blues? Is that indicated by the color of the logo plate at the head of the table? Because on this one is red.

When I was negotiating to buy it I had the owner measure the length nose to nose and he told me it was 90", so I assumed 45 x 90. (I thought pool tables always had playing surfaces with the length 2x the width - shows you what I know if they used to be 92 x 45.) Do you know when they added the leveling system? I'll reconnect with the seller to get a better idea of the age of the table if that would help, and see if he knows if it has the leveling system. And I'll get the playing surface remeasured to confirm.
Click to expand...
That was a typo, should have been 46"×92" but at any rate, I'm trying to think when it was that we went to the 45"×90" 8fts. I'm thinking it was around 03' or 04' because I sold the first one made as a coin op to Doc's Tavern over in Ocean Park, WA. We changed the Professionals to 45"×90" later though, after we sent out all the 46x92 slate. The Professionals at that time didn't have the same leveling system as the ProAms and Smart Tables did, and I can't remember exactly when I retro fitted the same leveling system to the Professionals, but I'm thinking it was somewhere around maybe 06'-07'. Does this table have the Dyamondwood top rails, or Oak rails a with stains??
 
realkingcobra said:
That was a typo, should have been 46"×92" but at any rate, I'm trying to think when it was that we went to the 45"×90" 8fts. I'm thinking it was around 03' or 04' because I sold the first one made as a coin op to Doc's Tavern over in Ocean Park, WA. We changed the Professionals to 45"×90" later though, after we sent out all the 46x92 slate. The Professionals at that time didn't have the same leveling system as the ProAms and Smart Tables did, and I can't remember exactly when I retro fitted the same leveling system to the Professionals, but I'm thinking it was somewhere around maybe 06'-07'. Does this table have the Dyamondwood top rails, or Oak rails a with stains??
Click to expand...
Here's a picture. It doesn't look to me like either. I think it's stained maple or sapele. FWIW I think it's gorgeous!
 

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Sheldon said:
The marking of lines and stretching the cloth consistently in all directions is indexing. This makes a difference. It's *possible* to do a good job without marking the lines, but I don't know of many good reasons not to. You want the weave of the cloth to be nice and straight, as well as evenly tensioned.
I do feel that gluing the cloth to the slate where possible, is superior to staples. Some will argue otherwise, I'm just giving my opinion.
Diamonds are designed to be glued. I have seen people staple the cloth to the plywood of the leveling system, this is a CRIME. (just kidding, but only a little). I've also seen spray glue used, and the cloth tucked underneath the slate. (Definitely a crime :eek:)
Click to expand...
Well then I'll make sure the installation is done with glue. And from what I've seen it should be roller and/or brush applied contact adhesive, not spray.
 
Sheldon said:
Diamonds are designed to be glued.
Click to expand...
The "authorized dealer" that installed a new Professional for me used glue. Spray glue. It pulled away shortly after installation. Fritz... look for the best around (you'll need a detective to find one)... pay his price and thank him.
 
GoldCrown said:
The "authorized dealer" that installed a new Professional for me used glue. Spray glue. It pulled away shortly after installation. Fritz... look for the best around (you'll need a detective to find one)... pay his price and thank him.
Click to expand...
Thanks. FWIW Diamond does not recommend spray glue as I understand, but rather a liquid contact adhesive.
 
Dymondwood has been missed in a number of industries, sort of a wonder there have not been replacements since the original Rutland Plywood facility burned to the ground in 2014. It almost suggests there was not a lot of profit in it, or they would have been back? Webb seems to be a reasonable replacement, but they don't make sheet sizes large enough (long enough) for table rails.

Phenolic - High Density Full Panel

webbwood.com webbwood.com

Fritzwalker, you are correct that the table rail visual is QS sapele, or khaya, or one of the other flashy mahogany substitutes.
But as someone else noted, they can fake that with the veneers and how they are stacked, does not actually have to be a Sapele top layer, though that material or Khaya is cheap enough it would not be a big monetary factor. "Rosewood" is a brand descriptive, no way does it look like rosewood. :)
 
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