Predator CONFIRMS revo 12.9 has LOWER deflection than 12.4 !!!

[Kris_b1104]

Saw a what's in the bag with Joshua Filler. Couple interesting items.

First but not related to this thread is that his 58 inch playing cue weighs 16.6 ounces.

Second, more related is regarding his going to carbon. He said that his 12.4 has the same deflection as his Z3. I believe he also said it's modified by predator to make that number, the ones you buy aren't.

I wonder if a regular non-pro player could contact Predator and pay a little extra for customization like this. If a 12.4 diameter shaft has the same deflection as my Z3, that would be amazing. I shot with a 314-2 for close to 10 years, then got a Revo and sold it, now recently got a Z3.

I can shoot a dead straight-in shot with extreme top left english with the Z3, while aiming directly in line to the object ball and pocket, and the ball will fly in and the cueball will force-follow 2 rails without scratching in the same pocket as object ball. However, my stroke has to be super precise and on point to consistently make that happen.

This is how I personally test deflection, trying to load up the cueball with extreme english on a dead straight in shot and see how much I have to compensate in order to make the object ball and have the cueball force follow 2 rails. I am also trying to aim dead straight to the object ball and punching the shot with power, not a slow or medium stroke.

I could never do that with the 314-2 or the Revo (both larger diameter tips than Z3), unless I aimed slightly off to compensate for the deflection.

I'm impressed that his 12.4 Revo has the same amount of deflection as the Z3, cause as far as I'm aware, Z3 deflection is practically non-existent, except for a few rare shots that require some kind of touch or finesse.

 

[DeadStick]

I can shoot a dead straight-in shot with extreme top left english with the Z3, while aiming directly in line to the object ball and pocket, and the ball will fly in and the cueball will force-follow 2 rails without scratching in the same pocket as object ball.

I hear ya, but if it didn’t deflect a little, you would scratch.

 

[Kris_b1104]

I hear ya, but if it didn’t deflect a little, you would scratch.

If my aunt was a man she'd be my uncle

And to be frank...I'd have to change my name.

 

[garczar]

If my aunt was a man she'd be my uncle

And to be frank...I'd have to change my name.

 

[DeadStick]

I'm impressed that his 12.4 Revo has the same amount of deflection as the Z3, cause as far as I'm aware, Z3 deflection is practically non-existent, except for a few rare shots that require some kind of touch or finesse.

The z3 deflects around 1.9” on a hard shot with max side from 6 diamonds on a 9-ft table. The 12.4 Revo deflects 2.0”. The 11.8 Revo is lower than both at 1.7”.

I played z2/z3 shafts for years. They have a natural pivot point (a bridge length where deflection is cancelled out on firm shots) of 18-19”. Now I play with a 12.5 Cuetec Cynergy CF, which has a pivot point of 14” due to slightly higher deflection, a better match for my personal bridge length and playing style.

LD tech is very real, but it doesn’t mean zero deflection.

 

[garczar]

The z3 deflects around 1.9” on a hard shot with max side from 6 diamonds on a 9-ft table. The 12.4 Revo deflects 2.0”. The 11.8 Revo is lower than both at 1.7”.

I played z2/z3 shafts for years. They have a natural pivot point (a bridge length where deflection is cancelled out on firm shots) of 18-19”. Now I play with a 12.5 Cuetec Cynergy CF, which has a pivot point of 14” due to slightly higher deflection, a better match for my personal bridge length and playing style.

LD tech is very real, but it doesn’t mean zero deflection.

Yep, NO deflection would be like gravity taking the day off. ALL shafts deflect, some just less than others.

 

[Kris_b1104]

I played z2/z3 shafts for years. They have a natural pivot point (a bridge length where deflection is cancelled out on firm shots) of 18-19”. Now I play with a 12.5 Cuetec Cynergy CF, which has a pivot point of 14” due to slightly higher deflection, a better match for my personal bridge length and playing style.

Can you go a little more in depth about this? I'm curious since I play with a Z3. Are you saying the length of my bridge has a correlation with deflection? How can I find my pivot point and how do I adjust? by changing bridge length? My bad if I sound like a noob, but in all my years playing I've never thought about this (pivot point + bridge length)

 

[dendweller]

Can you go a little more in depth about this? I'm curious since I play with a Z3. Are you saying the length of my bridge has a correlation with deflection? How can I find my pivot point and how do I adjust? by changing bridge length? My bad if I sound like a noob, but in all my years playing I've never thought about this (pivot point + bridge length)

if you don't use back hand english it likely doesn't matter.

 

[DeadStick]

if you don't use back hand english it likely doesn't matter.

It does (to me) in that it auto-corrects for unintentional off-center hits. Especially relevant with a break cue.

 

[dendweller]

It does (to me) in that it auto-corrects for unintentional off-center hits. Especially relevant with a break cue.

to a lot of people, was just telling the guy that didn't know why the length matters that it might not to him.

 

[DeadStick]

Can you go a little more in depth about this? I'm curious since I play with a Z3. Are you saying the length of my bridge has a correlation with deflection? How can I find my pivot point and how do I adjust? by changing bridge length? My bad if I sound like a noob, but in all my years playing I've never thought about this (pivot point + bridge length)

Sure thing. First of all, your bridge length doesn't change deflection. But if you match your bridge length to your shaft's natural pivot point, then you can use back-hand english (BHE) to apply sidespin when hitting firm enough that swerve won't be a factor.

For example, you line up to the shot with center-ball, then move your back hand left or right to apply any amount of sidespin you want, keeping your bridge at the same spot. Any deflection will be offset perfectly and your shot will travel down your original aim line. (Again, only for shots that are firm enough so they don't swerve back.)

It's also useful in that it will help keep shots online if you unintentionally hit the ball off-center, which is common with hard break shots.

More info, along with how to test your shafts here: https://billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue/natural-pivot-length/

 

[dendweller]

bridge length to your shaft's natural pivot point

I think it's safe to say, that it's only "natural" in that it works for the right amount of spin with the right amount of speed. If you use that shaft with a short bridge and it works, have at it.

 

[Kris_b1104]

Sure thing. First of all, your bridge length doesn't change deflection. But if you match your bridge length to your shaft's natural pivot point, then you can use back-hand english (BHE) to apply sidespin when hitting firm enough that swerve won't be a factor.

For example, you line up to the shot with center-ball, then move your back hand left or right to apply any amount of sidespin you want, keeping your bridge at the same spot. Any deflection will be offset perfectly and your shot will travel down your original aim line. (Again, only for shots that are firm enough so they don't swerve back.)

It's also useful in that it will help keep shots online if you unintentionally hit the ball off-center, which is common with hard break shots.

More info, along with how to test your shafts here: https://billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue/natural-pivot-length/

Thanks for this, good information! Dr. Dave's YT video helped with the visualize, kinda wild how much he pivoted and the cueball still went straight.

So you said previously when you had the Z3, because of the longer natural pivot point and your bridge length, you didn't really like how it matched your playing style. That makes sense as I feel way more accurate when I have a longer bridge with the Z3 than I did with the 314-2. (I use this for mental advantage) For example, if I have a long tough shot, I think in my head that if I extend my bridge a little, I'll increase my chances of making it, and it usually works lol. Helps to take the pressure off, mentally.

What would you say is your normal bridge length(average)? 6-8inches from the tip?

I've never thought about keeping a consistent bridge length and incorporating it into my pre-shot routine, but maybe I should. Obviously it will have to change for certain shots, but so far I've been doing it subconsciously.

 

[DeadStick]

I think it's safe to say, that it's only "natural" in that it works for the right amount of spin with the right amount of speed. If you use that shaft with a short bridge and it works, have at it.

The natural pivot point of a shaft doesn't change with amount of spin. With speed, sure, if you hit it slow enough that swerve brings it back before hitting the OB. But once you're at a fast-enough threshold or short enough distance to avoid swerve, hitting it harder doesn't change the amount of deflection.

I'm not sure which shaft you're referring to, but the 14" pivot point of my Cuetec CF shaft and my 14" bridge to match isn't what I would call "short". Short to me is a bridge length of 7-8", which is what you saw frequently back in the 90s and earlier - coincidentally (?) a close match to the natural pivot point of a thick maple shaft with heavy ferrule.

 

[DeadStick]

What would you say is your normal bridge length(average)? 6-8inches from the tip?

I try to be 14" from the "V" or loop of my bridge to the ball whenever possible, to match my Cuetec CF shaft. I don't think about it now, since I've sort of ingrained that distance. But sometimes I spot-check myself when practicing. You can also put a small mark on your shaft to remind yourself.

Since I address the ball about an inch away, my bridge is 13" from the tip. I'd say it's about an average bridge length of what you see pros using these days, unless they have a reason to go shorter.

 

[dendweller]

I'm not sure which shaft you're referring to, but the 14" pivot point of my Cuetec CF shaft and my 14" bridge to match isn't what I would call "short".

I wasn't referring to you at all. I was telling the poster asking the question that if he used a short bridge with a z3 and played well that was fine.

As far as spin and speed, I said what I said as a combination of the two, spin and speed.

Over all, my point was that you can use a low deflection shaft without thinking you need to adjust your bridge length. That's one way, not the only way.

I get what bhe is and think it's useful, but I don't ever remember thinking about it when I'm playing a match.

 

[Kris_b1104]

I try to be 14" from the "V" or loop of my bridge to the ball whenever possible, to match my Cuetec CF shaft. I don't think about it now, since I've sort of ingrained that distance. But sometimes I spot-check myself when practicing. You can also put a small mark on your shaft to remind yourself.

Since I address the ball about an inch away, my bridge is 13" from the tip. I'd say it's about an average bridge length of what you see pros using these days, unless they have a reason to go shorter.

I will consciously try to increase my bridge length to match the longer natural pivot point (18-19") of the Z3 and see how much of a difference it makes.

I already feel like I am more accurate when my bridge is longer, so I definitely think it will improve my game, even if slightly. I would say on average my bridge length is about 10" from the V to the cueball. Thanks for the info!

 

[DeadStick]

I wasn't referring to you at all. I was telling the poster asking the question that if he used a short bridge with a z3 and played well that was fine.

Ah, ok. You replied to me, so I thought you were referring to me.

I get what bhe is and think it's useful, but I don't ever remember thinking about when I'm playing a match.

I've used BHE for so long that the visual angle of the shaft related to the aim line has sort of burned into my subconscious, so these days I usually just come down on the shot with the english already applied (that helps avoid the little "body adjustment" needed when pivoting after I'm down). If I'm faced with a really tricky shot, say a thin cut with max english, then I'll fall back to using it, as it really does help me be more precise.

 

[JoeyInCali]

This must be the reason the Yankees can't win the Mosconi Cup anymore .
Everyone is obsessed with " deflection ".
I've had a customer who has owned and sold a few Revos.
He kept the straightest one and swears it has lower squirt that the ones he sold .
Same dude presses his HARD layered tips and drives me nuts as they wobble after he presses them.
CF tubes are already foam filled . Barely have ferrules in them ( if you call them that ).
And people still want to push the envelope and want them even lighter at the front .

 

[DeadStick]

I will consciously try to increase my bridge length to match the longer natural pivot point (18-19") of the Z3 and see how much of a difference it makes.

Put a tiny piece of painter's tape on your shaft 17" from the tip (assuming you address the ball with your tip 1" away), then you can confirm your bridge length is constant each time. Practice some firm straight stop shots from 2-3 feet away with lots of english, aiming with centerball first then pivoting left and right with your back hand, and see what happens. Done perfectly, the CB will stop directly behind the OB and spin in place.

If you miss the way your shaft is pointing (e.g. CB goes too far right when applying right spin), then you've over-corrected for deflection, and you should move the mark away from the tip a little more. Missing the opposite direction means you've under-corrected for deflection, and you should move the mark closer to the tip. Go in 1/2" increments doing several shots from each side. Each shaft is a little different, but you'll find it for yours.