Tight pockets are NOT good for the game!

[Flakeandrun]

Absolutely! Especially when they're buying their own tables.
As for what they can expect at their local venues, they will have to settle for what they have.
A pool hall with a mix of both is ideal.
Bars are going to cater to the bangers, serious pool players are a bad investment for them.

But the venues could be doing more to facilitate the growth of the game... Even as inflation makes breathing an expensive hobby.
Hopefully, the dynamic of these venues changes (especially in the US - being on this forum is interesting to me, as it is constantly shaping my opinion of what I thought was pool Mecca). I thing the venues that cater to American tables here in China are doing a good job, but then the other games snooker, and Chinese-8 are popular and are already tough, tight pocketed games.

Bars can cater to bangers, but halls can cater to those enthusiastic about the game, or gearing themselves to capture new audiences to the game.

 

[Flakeandrun]

There are deep shelf tables where bank shots that touch the rail or even front of the pocket but otherwise clean won't fall

I put my table through Dr. Dave's TT rating. In fact, many tables here would sit quite high up that list I imagine. I do have some tables I hate playing on when my friends want me to play at other venues. Familiarity with a table also plays a part in our shot selection.

 

[tomatoshooter]

Also, tight pockets are brutal for 14.1 play, even for skilled 14.1 players. It comes to a point that it virtually takes away any chance of calling a shot out of the pack or cheating the pocket in order to make a ball or to get proper shape on your next shot.

I have the opposite view, at least for pro players. A game to 150 is much more interesting when the high run is 35.

No, professionals have good reason to expect more challenging equipment.

I was referring to "bar rules" and people who think calling the ball and pocket is not enough, and every little nuance of a shot must be called. Such as touching another ball on its way to the pocket.

Do you need to know the name of the guy that made the ball, too? I have to cut the cue in half and count the rings.

 

[dendweller]

Add worn in cloth to the tight pockets and you would see the pros miss a lot more. Sometimes you may even question whether they are pros.

I play on gold crown 3s with cloth that has been pretty well used. The pockets are large but lively. Makes them surprisingly stingy, and that's at probably 4 7/8 or 5.

 

[garczar]

But the venues could be doing more to facilitate the growth of the game... Even as inflation makes breathing an expensive hobby.
Hopefully, the dynamic of these venues changes (especially in the US - being on this forum is interesting to me, as it is constantly shaping my opinion of what I thought was pool Mecca). I thing the venues that cater to American tables here in China are doing a good job, but then the other games snooker, and Chinese-8 are popular and are already tough, tight pocketed games.

Bars can cater to bangers, but halls can cater to those enthusiastic about the game, or gearing themselves to capture new audiences to the game.

Hate to sound like a broken record here 'flake BUT: Chinese 8ball/Heyball will NEVER be popular in the US. Its boring as fk to watch and doesn't look very fun to play either. If you like it great but you're preaching to a very small choir. As i said earlier having a couple tight pocket tables is fine but the majority need to be 'fun size' for general play.

 

[Justaneng]

I definitely agree with you here, I've met a few people here in Shanghai (mostly Americans) who love talking up their game, and then blame anything except themselves when they don't cut the mustard. Is the table too hard for everyone? Or is it just too hard for the person taking the L's...

It's the white rails, it throws our vision off.

 

[Cameron Smith]

Also, tight pockets are brutal for 14.1 play, even for skilled 14.1 players. It comes to a point that it virtually takes away any chance of calling a shot out of the pack or cheating the pocket in order to make a ball or to get proper shape on your next shot.

I lean the opposite way, at least for pros. Yes, you lose the ability to do some things but Shaws run showed that keeping big pockets for pro 14.1 is at the expense of tight patterns.

 

[Ghost of OBC]

The logic that the better a player is the tighter the equipment is terrible for spectating. Can you imagine if the NBA played on 12 ft rims because, "too many players can dunk now." Or the NFL raising the crossbar because the kickers are too good? Or EPL shrinking the goals because too many guys can bend it like Beckham?

Pro sports is about entertainment, not making sure the most dedicated autist wins every event. A looser game, especially for nineball, ya know the fast gambling game, is much better for spectators. How many times does that Melling run out get passed around compared to a Filler break and run where he never gets out of line.

If the game is indeed too easy with 4.5 pockets, great, shorten the shot clock and lengthen the races. More opportunities for something exciting to happen.

 

[garczar]

The logic that the better a player is the tighter the equipment is terrible for spectating. Can you imagine if the NBA played on 12 ft rims because, "too many players can dunk now." Or the NFL raising the crossbar because the kickers are too good? Or EPL shrinking the goals because too many guys can bend it like Beckham?

Pro sports is about entertainment, not making sure the most dedicated autist wins every event. A looser game, especially for nineball, ya know the fast gambling game, is much better for spectators. How many times does that Melling run out get passed around compared to a Filler break and run where he never gets out of line.

If the game is indeed too easy with 4.5 pockets, great, shorten the shot clock and lengthen the races. More opportunities for something exciting to happen.

Diamond's with 4.5 ProCuts and broken-in cloth are all the table most can fade. 4.5 on a GC is a lil easier due to short shelf but for all but pros even these are tough enough.

 

[jtompilot]

I think part of the problem is the players who aren’t good insisting on tight pockets. They might be better served to improve on moderate equipment before going to tighter tables. I also don’t think the analogy of the size of the hole in golf vs. the pocket size is quite right. I’m not sure why. Maybe because putting is different. Maybe because tight pockets in pool have more similarities to a hazard in golf. By that I mean if you hit the rail a little too far before the pocket the penalty can be worse than leaving a putt on the lip. It is more like playing into a severe bunker or water that will cost you at least a stroke.

The "aren't good" players that want to play on the tightest tables in the room will never be good players. They have been "C" players for many years and have no desire to become better, they seem to enjoy the tougher pockets.

 

[garczar]

The "aren't good" players that want to play on the tightest tables in the room will never be good players. They have been "C" players for many years and have no desire to become better, they seem to enjoy the tougher pockets.

Cracks me up how many people keep whining about stream match pockets being too big and they can't run three balls into a fkn laundry basket. A lot of people just don't realize/know how easy a table plays on new/slick worsted cloth.

 

[JPB2]

Diamond's with 4.5 ProCuts and broken-in cloth are all the table most can fade. 4.5 on a GC is a lil easier due to short shelf but for all but pros even these are tough enough.

My pool room play is almost 100% this equipment right now. I am not a great player and it is plenty tough. We have been playing straight pool on this of late and decent players are running fewer than people thought - but there are factors other than pockets. Seems fine for one pocket, although I know many favor smaller than that for OP. The rec players do seem to be ok with 4.5. Doesn't seem too easy for excellent players either. I have never played on a league cut Diamond. I bet a lot of players would enjoy that if you didn't mention pocket size.

 

[JPB2]

"also don’t think the analogy of the size of the hole in golf vs. the pocket size is quite right. I’m not sure why. Maybe because putting is different. Maybe because tight pockets in pool have more similarities to a hazard in golf. By that I mean if you hit the rail a little too far before the pocket the penalty can be worse than leaving a putt on the lip. It is more like playing into a severe bunker or water that will cost you at least a stroke."

Quoting myself here. After thinking about it, I think pocket size may compare better to yardage on a golf course. A big factor in course rating is length. Playing a long hole, the distance affects you on every shot. Longer approach with a longer club makes it more likely you have a tougher pitch, chip or putt. That means your next putt is likely to be a little tougher etc... I think the tight pockets affect shotmaking and position and things can compound. A better player handles it better and can recover easier.

 

[garczar]

My pool room play is almost 100% this equipment right now. I am not a great player and it is plenty tough. We have been playing straight pool on this of late and decent players are running fewer than people thought - but there are factors other than pockets. Seems fine for one pocket, although I know many favor smaller than that for OP. The rec players do seem to be ok with 4.5. Doesn't seem too easy for excellent players either. I have never played on a league cut Diamond. I bet a lot of players would enjoy that if you didn't mention pocket size.

LC diamonds are pretty roomy.

 

[shooter_Hans]

The correct answer is who cares. For those of you that have a pool room that has the pockets of your preference then good for you. You are fortunate enough to have it.

For those of you moaning about big pockets be fortunate enough to have a place to even play pool.

At the end of the day, a pool room has to make money and the general public don't even know we're having these conversations. Owners want people in there playing.

 

[Dunnn51]

Wasn't meaning to take a shot directly at you buddy! Absolutely not my intention.
This thread seems unnecesarily negative toward tighter pockets, or the difference between top-flight and bar-banging casual players.
It's shot selection. Relative to moment, how the particular table plays, who the player is playing and their understanding at that moment... In short, personal preference based on subjective, situational context.
I can Dm you some random IG trash of some kicks/banks on my usual practice table, not sure how to post video on the thread directly as I don't use YT.

This is what it is all about.
NP I been "shot at" before!
Best.

 

[jtompilot]

My pool room play is almost 100% this equipment right now. I am not a great player and it is plenty tough. We have been playing straight pool on this of late and decent players are running fewer than people thought - but there are factors other than pockets. Seems fine for one pocket, although I know many favor smaller than that for OP. The rec players do seem to be ok with 4.5. Doesn't seem too easy for excellent players either. I have never played on a league cut Diamond. I bet a lot of players would enjoy that if you didn't mention pocket size.

I can live and be happy with any room that went with 4.5" pockets on every table. Buffalo's has gone with 4.25 on all their 9' tables. Rail Yard billiards also went the 4.25" pockets on their 9' tables. If you want bigger holes, just go play on the BB tables, although those Diamond BB's are no gimmie and even the Pro's miss on them.

 

[maha]

pool players that play well look from their point of view. bad players and fun players that go into the pool room and pay and drink and eat look at a at the fun factor of play from their own point of view.

the pool room owner has to decide what size pockets, as well as what every single thing in his room will make him the most money over time in order to survive and prosper.

unfortunately, few owners do that and blame something else on their down business..

and great business people generally dont open a pool room, but go into something that makes them much more than 100k or so in profits.

 

[JPB2]

I can live and be happy with any room that went with 4.5" pockets on every table. Buffalo's has gone with 4.25 on all their 9' tables. Rail Yard billiards also went the 4.25" pockets on their 9' tables. If you want bigger holes, just go play on the BB tables, although those Diamond BB's are no gimmie and even the Pro's miss on them.

Yeah, when I mentioned the 4.5” pockets, the room I play at has more 7’ than 9’, but all tables now are Diamond with 4.5”. The 7’ tables are easier than 9’, but they are not 5” Valley pockets by any means.

 

[skogstokig]

A looser game, especially for nineball, ya know the fast gambling game, is much better for spectators. How many times does that Melling run out get passed around compared to a Filler break and run where he never gets out of line.

i believe melling's famous runout was on a rasson with 4" pockets, or very close to 4".