Jumping/Pro Play

[Island Drive]

As I often do, I compare 9 ball to golf.
After the tee shot/after the break shot your playfield/layout offers many choices to proceed.
In golf, if you hit a ball right next to the tree there should be no way your able to jump over the tree and still advance your ball forward.
In pro pool these days, with skill levels on the rise, being beat by this tool I feel is not fair to the sport/players that travel for pro 9 ball events.
I know many are making a living off this hopper, but I don't think ''long term'' it helps this game, unless the player uses their playing cue.
I heard allot of good talk about DCC and no jumps allowed.

bm

 

[measureman]

Jump cues are evil and should be banned.

 

[David in FL]

As I often do, I compare 9 ball to golf.
After the tee shot/after the break shot your playfield/layout offers many choices to proceed.
In golf, if you hit a ball right next to the tree there should be no way your able to jump over the tree and still advance your ball forward.
In pro pool these days, with skill levels on the rise, being beat by this tool I feel is not fair to the sport/players that travel for pro 9 ball events.
I know many are making a living off this hopper, but I don't think ''long term'' it helps this game, unless the player uses their playing cue.
I heard allot of good talk about DCC and no jumps allowed.

bm

I may certainly be able to get over an obstructing tree/bush/whatever with a lob wedge, but not a 3-iron.

Different tools for different situations.

Next time you're in a greenside bunker leave your sand wedge in the bag and use your five iron instead…

Silliness.

 

[rharm]

As I often do, I compare 9 ball to golf.
After the tee shot/after the break shot your playfield/layout offers many choices to proceed.
In golf, if you hit a ball right next to the tree there should be no way your able to jump over the tree and still advance your ball forward.
In pro pool these days, with skill levels on the rise, being beat by this tool I feel is not fair to the sport/players that travel for pro 9 ball events.
I know many are making a living off this hopper, but I don't think ''long term'' it helps this game, unless the player uses their playing cue.
I heard allot of good talk about DCC and no jumps allowed.

bm

Should golf then only allow a driver and a putter instead of the 14 clubs they do allow?

 

[JABSolstice]

You have different clubs for different shots. Why do we allow a driver in golf when some players can only consistently hit an 8 iron?

 

[couldnthinkof01]

 

[The_JV]

I know many are making a living off this hopper, but I don't think ''long term'' it helps this game, unless the player uses their playing cue.

Such a tired argument. Jumping isn't the problem then. It's the ease in which players can get the ball vertical with a dedicated jump cue. Like getting the ball in the air is the only variable to a successful shot...lol

Is there an event you have in mind as an example where an elite player lost to a shortstop or less because of the use of a jump cue...?

 

[DeadStick]

If you don’t want your opponent to get out of a safe with his jump stick, then play a better safe.

To me it’s one of the most exciting shots in the game to see executed successfully - especially if I do it.

I would hate to see it go away.

Those burn marks on my home table are badges of honor.

 

[The_JV]

If you don’t want your opponent to get out of a safe with his jump stick, then play a better safe.

To me it’s one of the most exciting shots in the game to see executed successfully - especially if I do it.

I would hate to see it go away.

I completely agree. However there is an argument about players recovering from their own poor play with a jumper. As a huge jump cue fanboy. I still agree with Stu on this one and think that a good rule would be to only allow the short cue at first approach to the table. That's places importance on the skill of playing safe, and removes the jumper as a means to compensate for bad CB control.

 

[DeadStick]

I completely agree. However there is an argument about players recovering from their own poor play with a jumper. As a huge jump cue fanboy. I still agree with Stu on this one and think that a good rule would be to only allow the short cue at first approach to the table. That's places importance on the skill of playing safe, and removes the jumper as a means to compensate for bad CB control.

Hadn’t heard of that rule suggestion, but I’d be ok with that. (except when I'm playing the ghost, lol)

 

[Island Drive]

Just enjoyed listening to Stu and his viewpoints on the NO jumper feedback at DCC is all.
real kick shots are just that.
Like KO playing a perfect set against Yapp?
Ko got dead outta line on a few shots, But luckily, the way they laid he was able to hop his way thru it.

 

[David in FL]

I completely agree. However there is an argument about players recovering from their own poor play with a jumper. As a huge jump cue fanboy. I still agree with Stu on this one and think that a good rule would be to only allow the short cue at first approach to the table. That's places importance on the skill of playing safe, and removes the jumper as a means to compensate for bad CB control.

Have you ever pushed into a jump shot?

There are also times where it might make sense to leave the cue ball intentionally behind another ball as a two way, knowing that I have the option to jump. Or even to place it there intentionally because the jump gives a better angle to not only make the next object ball, but also for a subsequent leave.

It's another tool in the box.

 

[skogstokig]

i agree but it's a pointless argument as long as the promotors are dependent on cue sponsors. cuetec for MR, predator for *drum roll* predator events

 

[MitchAlsup]

As I often do, I compare 9 ball to golf.

So, you think a pool player should have access to 14 cues for different purposes ?!?

After the tee shot/after the break shot your playfield/layout offers many choices to proceed.
In golf, if you hit a ball right next to the tree there should be no way your able to jump over the tree and still advance your ball forward.

I have lobed my golf ball over 100 foot tall trees with an 8 iron many times.

In pro pool these days, with skill levels on the rise, being beat by this tool I feel is not fair to the sport/players that travel for pro 9 ball events.

The problem is 9-ball not the use of jump cues !!

I know many are making a living off this hopper, but I don't think ''long term'' it helps this game, unless the player uses their playing cue.

Why should anyone make a living playing pool ??

 

[The_JV]

Just enjoyed listening to Stu and his viewpoints on the NO jumper feedback at DCC is all.
real kick shots are just that.
Like KO playing a perfect set against Yapp?
Ko got dead outta line on a few shots, But luckily, the way they laid he was able to hop his way thru it.

I'd consider Ko .vs. Yapp even money... certainly not someone outclassed by some chump who bought a jump cue before the event.

 

[The_JV]

Have you ever pushed into a jump shot?

Yep... ...and it worked in my favour. Got it back and drained it . Of course the returned push makes it my first approach so following the "Stu Rule" I should be allowed to use the jumper.

There are also times where it might make sense to leave the cue ball intentionally behind another ball as a two way, knowing that I have the option to jump. Or even to place it there intentionally because the jump gives a better angle to not only make the next object ball, but also for a subsequent leave.

I also agree and have used a simple jump within a pattern. Although I consider it a rather cool way to produce an out. A line does need to be drawn somewhere. For the extreme rarity a player plans to play shape for a jump. I'd be willing to lose that possibility for common ground otherwise.

 

[David in FL]

Yep... ...and it worked in my favour. Got it back and drained it . Of course the returned push makes it my first approach so following the "Stu Rule" I should be allowed to use the jumper.

I also agree and have used a simple jump within a pattern. Although I consider it a rather cool way to produce an out. A line does need to be drawn somewhere. For the extreme rarity a player plans to play shape for a jump. I'd be willing to lose that possibility for common ground otherwise.

I disagree that a line needs to be drawn.

But I love the 4 wedges in my golf bag too.

They're all just additional tools in the box…

 

[The_JV]

I disagree that a line needs to be drawn.

But I love the 4 wedges in my golf bag too.

They're all just additional tools in the box…

I mis-spoke with "need". Need implies that something is wrong. I don't believe there's anything wrong with the current state of the rules surrounding the jumper. That said, I agree with Stu that player's playing poor positional shots shouldn't have such a crutch to recover from they're lack of ability.

I prefer players reap what they sow. If they play poor position then they should suffer for it. Split the hair however you like, but we should all agree that a jumper makes recovering much easier work. Just like I think players performing weak safeties should get punished with the jumper. Those playing weak position shouldn't be bailed out with one either. Keeping all that in mind. I personally think the enhancement of the rules to only allow the jumper during first approach, a great way to keep the 3D dynamic and keep everyone accountable for poor play.

 

[David in FL]

I mis-spoke with "need". Need implies that something is wrong. I don't believe there's anything wrong with the current state of the rules surrounding the jumper. That said, I agree with Stu that player's playing poor positional shots shouldn't have such a crutch to recover from they're lack of ability.

I prefer players reap what they sow. If they play poor position then they should suffer for it. Split the hair however you like, but we should all agree that a jumper makes recovering much easier work. Just like I think players performing weak safeties should get punished with the jumper. Those playing weak position shouldn't be bailed out with one either. Keeping all that in mind. I personally think the enhancement of the rules to only allow the jumper during first approach, a great way to keep the 3D dynamic and keep everyone accountable for poor play.

I'm a decent jumper, but I don't know a single person who thinks that having to pull out a jump cue because they missed position is preferable to not missing the position in the first place.

If you miss position you're going to be punished. How much that punishment is depends on your skill. Whether those skills includes jumping, kicking, or otherwise extracting yourself, those who are better are going to suffer less punishment than those who are not.

Regardless though, in every case, you're at more of a disadvantage to miss shape than you would be to have played it better in the first place.

 

[slide13]

Sorry, but that's a bad analogy. In golf you get up to 14 clubs, some of which have specialized purposes. Like a lob wedge, which can be very useful for getting over obstructions. Like a jump cue.

Now pool is different and the safety is an integral part of the game. I'm pretty ambivalent on the whole jump cue thing. I like them, I can use them, and I carry one. But if they were deemed illegal tomorrow that'd be fine too. If I enter a tournament where they're not allowed, that's cool with me. As long as we're all playing by the same rules I'm good.
But overall, I like jump cues and jumping and it adds another skill to the game.