Handle Hand Wrist Angle?

Island Drive

Island Drive

Otto/Dads College Roommate/Cleveland Browns
Silver Member
a. Do you point your thumb downward 6 o'clock when holding the handle?
b. Or? Do you point your thumb more inward allowing the handle hand to grip and wrap around somewhat?
c. Or do your have your handle hand thumb pointing slightly outward away from your body?

I've been struggling/experimenting/along with my entire game for a few yrs now, trying to do well and have been improving BUT I knew (somethings wrong).

My handle hand position was it the same when I played my best NOPE.
It's different, but as of today I'm going back to what worked.

In 79 S. Cal I asked a good friend to take pics of me playing.

He shot 4 rolls of black and white, in the mix of those pics is John Henderson, Brian Hashimoto (Hawaiian Brian), Frank the Barber Almanza and others.
I just found em looked at em, and Boy am I happy I had those taken 43 yrs ago in S. Cal.
Now I fixed it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

bm

Two of thee above don't work for me. The pics solidified ''I was not doing it correctly for me''.
\
bm
 
I've always thought SVB's wrist cock / angle is interesting (where the butt is held at an angle in the palm so the first knuckle is raised compared to the others and the thumb is slightly angled forward).

1709424383034.png


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My attempts to mimic it have been met with failure.
 
kling&allen said:
I've always thought SVB's wrist cock / angle is interesting (where the butt is held at an angle in the palm so the first knuckle is raised compared to the others and the thumb is slightly angled forward).

View attachment 746518

View attachment 746519

My attempts to mimic it have been met with failure.
Click to expand...
Thumb forward?
But is the thumb forward in the 5, 6 or 7 o'clock position?
 
Island Drive said:
a. Do you point your thumb downward 6 o'clock when holding the handle?
b. Or? Do you point your thumb more inward allowing the handle hand to grip and wrap around somewhat?
c. Or do your have your handle hand thumb pointing slightly outward away from your body?

I've been struggling/experimenting/along with my entire game for a few yrs now, trying to do well and have been improving BUT I knew (somethings wrong).

My handle hand position was it the same when I played my best NOPE.
It's different, but as of today I'm going back to what worked.

In 79 S. Cal I asked a good friend to take pics of me playing.

He shot 4 rolls of black and white, in the mix of those pics is John Henderson, Brian Hashimoto (Hawaiian Brian), Frank the Barber Almanza and others.
I just found em looked at em, and Boy am I happy I had those taken 43 yrs ago in S. Cal.
Now I fixed it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

bm

Two of thee above don't work for me. The pics solidified ''I was not doing it correctly for me''.
\
bm
Click to expand...
can you post those pics?
 
Island Drive said:
a. Do you point your thumb downward 6 o'clock when holding the handle?
b. Or? Do you point your thumb more inward allowing the handle hand to grip and wrap around somewhat?
c. Or do your have your handle hand thumb pointing slightly outward away from your body?

I've been struggling/experimenting/along with my entire game for a few yrs now, trying to do well and have been improving BUT I knew (somethings wrong).

My handle hand position was it the same when I played my best NOPE.
It's different, but as of today I'm going back to what worked.

In 79 S. Cal I asked a good friend to take pics of me playing.

He shot 4 rolls of black and white, in the mix of those pics is John Henderson, Brian Hashimoto (Hawaiian Brian), Frank the Barber Almanza and others.
I just found em looked at em, and Boy am I happy I had those taken 43 yrs ago in S. Cal.
Now I fixed it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

bm

Two of thee above don't work for me. The pics solidified ''I was not doing it correctly for me''.
\
bm
Click to expand...

How do the golfers do it?
 
Here's a pic from the 2023 US Open of a pros grip that's very close to what I had and now put back in place.
 

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The cue is held by gravity in the two fingers (2 & 3) that gently curl in the cue's direction.
The first knuckle of the thumb touches* the cue so that gravity can do its job.

)*) touches but does not have any real pressure imparted on the cue.
 
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This pic is of Orcullo at the 2021 US Open.
Is this what your saying Mitch?
Another point about this grip, that's totally different from others is.
As he hits thru the shot the hand closes up/grips more the harder he hits.
Don't know of another that holds the handle this way, tho I'm sure someone do.
More speed more fingers closing up, less speed less closing up of the grip.
 

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Island Drive said:
a. Do you point your thumb downward 6 o'clock when holding the handle?
b. Or? Do you point your thumb more inward allowing the handle hand to grip and wrap around somewhat?
c. Or do your have your handle hand thumb pointing slightly outward away from your body?

I've been struggling/experimenting/along with my entire game for a few yrs now, trying to do well and have been improving BUT I knew (somethings wrong).

My handle hand position was it the same when I played my best NOPE.
It's different, but as of today I'm going back to what worked.

In 79 S. Cal I asked a good friend to take pics of me playing.

He shot 4 rolls of black and white, in the mix of those pics is John Henderson, Brian Hashimoto (Hawaiian Brian), Frank the Barber Almanza and others.
I just found em looked at em, and Boy am I happy I had those taken 43 yrs ago in S. Cal.
Now I fixed it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

bm

Two of thee above don't work for me. The pics solidified ''I was not doing it correctly for me''.
\
bm
Click to expand...
Recently I was told by an older known pro player / well respected instructor, that to keep me from my occasional bad habit of twisting my wrist on my follow through, to remove my thumb completely from my grip.

Taking his advice, I’ve been playing much better in the 3 months since he told me this. The only exception to this is on my 9 ball break, where I still have the inside of my thumb resting against the left side of the cue butt.
 
DeeDeeCues said:
How do the golfers do it?
Click to expand...
Golf grip is with a neutral hand and gripped in the last three fingers....first finger and thumb are just along for the ride....In addition....If you grip with your first finger and thumb...it makes your wrist stiff...You have to relax your first finger and thumb to move your wrist freely.....Gripped in the last three fingers...You can apply a squeeze and still move your wrist.

What is "neutral"???....Let your hands hang by your side....nice and relaxed....notice how your hands kind of face each other....now if you bring your hands together they will be in a neutral position and is where they will (naturally) want to return......Typically the V between the first finger and thumb will point to the nose or right eye (if a right handed golfer)....the key is they "both" need to point in the same direction.......IF one (or both) hands is off of neutral...they will fight each other at impact....You will have a hard time getting a consistent square club face at impact.....You may be able to force it many times...but under pressure it will fail.

Personally even though the grip is only in one hand and kind of turned on its side.... I think a lot of the grip can transfer to a pool cue grip....

Go back to letting your hand hang at your side....now just make a loose fist without moving your wrist.....This is your "natural" grip position.......most likely the back of your hand is jutting out from your wrist just slightly and also the palm (base of your thumb) is doing the same......Also notice that the knuckles of your fingers are pointed straight down....(however if you are like me...with short fingers I have to open my fist a bit to get it around the cue so the knuckles when holding the cue don't point straight down....Someone with longer fingers my have the knuckles directly at the bottom of the cue...but that won't be a natural wrist position for me and is doomed for failure...I think same as Golf some players need different grip thickness.....IMO probably even more important than shaft diameter........I prefer a slimmer but to a thicker because of my short fingers.....they don't work well with thick butts.....But no I can not lie....In other areas....I do like big buts...:p

Also when you let your hand naturally hang down and put a pool cue in.......It won't be pointed in the direction you are facing....It should be angled across your body....as you bring the cue up (bending your elbow)....the cue will be in line with your forearm.....that IMO is your natural stroke....You just need to simply turn your whole body so the tip is now naturally in the direction of the CB/OB.......Your cue should now "naturally" want to stroke straight.

Now do this....Hold your hand out (palm down-fingers together)......Going down the middle of the top of your arm and down the middle of your back hand you will notice that line extends through the middle (flipper) finger.........So if squeezing the first finger and thumb adds tension to your wrist.....and that line down the back of your arm now has to jutt forward....why are we gripping it in the first finger and thumb as many books teach?

That middle finger (and the one right behind it) are the two main fingers that control the grip IMO......I suspect that those you see with a cocked first finger (Shane, CJ etc) have that first finger just along for the ride or perhaps acts as a rudder of sorts.....Based on my personal body type of short fingers.....my natural grip puts the ball of my pinky finger directly under the cue....That pinky acts as a rudder for me but other than that is not doing anything.....The first finger also acts as a rudder of sorts but other than that does not do anything....the thumb is just along for the ride....

In my case (for the OP reference) The thumb is pointing pretty much straight down and also the top of the first finger (above the knuckle) is pointing straight down...

Now that is just what I do......The whole "KEY" to the grip is to deliver the cue "naturally" straight.....If your grip is on correct for you...you won't have to think about stroking straight...it just happens.......If you are forcing the cue through straight in any way....IMO you are doomed for failure under pressure.

I use a 3D print device I made on the end of my cue that lets me know if I have any twist in my stroke.....If I do have a twist......I don't "force" it to stay straight....I adjust my grip until it naturally goes through strait.......So it is a slightly different approach to a straight stroke.....Instead of trying to build muscle memory with a flawed grip....I try to build memory of getting my grip on correct (which will deliver the cue straight)....No two people have the same size and body type....so copying someone else the way they grip the cue...may not be the best and most "natural" for you (or me)

I do think that the Golf grip and Pool grip although different share many a similarity.
 
bill, why dont you do what is natural to you as all others do, and what you did years ago when you played pro speed.

there is no right or wrong. or better or worse.
 
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ChrisinNC said:
Recently I was told by an older known pro player / well respected instructor, that to keep me from my occasional bad habit of twisting my wrist on my follow through, to remove my thumb completely from my grip.

Taking his advice, I’ve been playing much better in the 3 months since he told me this. The only exception to this is on my 9 ball break, where I still have the inside of my thumb resting against the left side of the cue butt.
Click to expand...
What does you thumb do, do you just open it up so its no longer on the cue??
 
maha said:
bill, why don't you do what is natural to you as all others do, and what you did years ago when you played pro speed.

there is no right or wrong. or better or worse.
Click to expand...
It's ironic you say this.

76- 81 while living/working in CA, a best lifelong friend of mine from High School was in the film industry.
I asked him to take pictures of me, 5 rolls of 36 prints.

2021 I talked to Corey he told me (handle hand) to close it up, Huge change for the better BUT.
Something was still not right after fixing that.
Lately I've been extremely frustrated with inconsistency of simple things.

Yesterday 3-2-2024, I remembered those print sheets.

Amongst those pics was the pic of Hendy wearing the flower shirt :) and Hawaiian Brian in the background, and Almanza/The Barber watching my game while I was beatin' on em.

I looked em over, had three good ones of my handle hand. :)
I realized my wrist angle for me was Wrong.

My handle angle is very similar to Thread #7.
WOW!
Like a golfer who finally got his grip right when putting.
Corey never said anything about wrist angle, why would he, most all pros Thumbs R at 6 o'clock.
Had I not of had those pics, I would of NEVER known.
I was thinking of going to a good instructor, BUT how would he Know that my wrist should be ''slightly outward''?

Thx MH for your thoughts.

bm
 
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@ Island Drive
I remember seeing you in Long Beach. The Ballroom? And from what I saw, you held the cue with an open hand. That is, fingers and thumb all extended downward. The only player never mind champ, I've seen with that (non) grip.
 
I sure did, very similar to Billy Thorpe BUT.
His handle hand opening is Huge, more than ANY other top pro out there yet he plays great.
Makes me now think, humm how did Lassiter Hold the handle?

And S. Line
Ballroom? I played in every room in La, was it Adam Brostoskis place on L. Beach Blvd downtown?
 
Island Drive said:
a. Do you point your thumb downward 6 o'clock when holding the handle?
b. Or? Do you point your thumb more inward allowing the handle hand to grip and wrap around somewhat?
c. Or do your have your handle hand thumb pointing slightly outward away from your body?

I've been struggling/experimenting/along with my entire game for a few yrs now, trying to do well and have been improving BUT I knew (somethings wrong).

My handle hand position was it the same when I played my best NOPE.
It's different, but as of today I'm going back to what worked.

In 79 S. Cal I asked a good friend to take pics of me playing.

He shot 4 rolls of black and white, in the mix of those pics is John Henderson, Brian Hashimoto (Hawaiian Brian), Frank the Barber Almanza and others.
I just found em looked at em, and Boy am I happy I had those taken 43 yrs ago in S. Cal.
Now I fixed it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

bm

Two of thee above don't work for me. The pics solidified ''I was not doing it correctly for me''.
\
bm
Click to expand...
I think Billy Thorpe's grip is interesting. Far as I could tell, his index finger really wasn't on the handle, the cue seemed to ride on his middle finger. I noticed it when he was playing on the feature table against Robbit Saes at DCC this year.

I think maybe each player needs to figure out what grip gets them stroking the straightest they can stroke, everyone's body is different.
 
True, but the gap between his fingers and the palm are Huge compared to his peers.
When I slightly cock my wrist outward (like I did since I began in 63, it locks in place and doesn't allow me to do some Wristy Thing, and straight ins are finally ALLOT easier and my break shot I can finally hit em square and what an immediate difference.
 
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