Small pockets ruining the game
- Thread starter smiling_Hans
- Start date
It seems to me that pocket size is something that comes up when the game gets harder just like in golf.
Professional golfers are accustomed to playing the best courses in the world that are in immaculate,
superb condition. They can shoot rounds 6-8 strokes under par often & sometimes 10 or more strokes.
Their egos become swollen from their scoring abilities on perfect courses and then they have to compete
in the four majors and humility sets in. They gripe about the fast greens, the length of the rough in the U.S.
Open, the flag positions, etc. Every player has to play the same course and you can still win shooting par
if & when the rest of the field is playing bogey golf. Isn’t it basically the same with 4” pockets vs. 3.9”? The
game gets admittedly harder but doesn’t that apply to the entire tournament field just like it happens in golf?
I know snooker is a tough game but the principles are consistent playing the table & with added accuracy.
I’d think that it would become infuriating to start missing shots and a professional would strive to just play
better than his opponents that should be struggle as much too. If they aren’t, then those players are better.
I’ll concede I’m a fan of tight pockets (4.25” CP) on a 9’ table but my game isn’t suited for smaller than that.
Professional golfers are accustomed to playing the best courses in the world that are in immaculate,
superb condition. They can shoot rounds 6-8 strokes under par often & sometimes 10 or more strokes.
Their egos become swollen from their scoring abilities on perfect courses and then they have to compete
in the four majors and humility sets in. They gripe about the fast greens, the length of the rough in the U.S.
Open, the flag positions, etc. Every player has to play the same course and you can still win shooting par
if & when the rest of the field is playing bogey golf. Isn’t it basically the same with 4” pockets vs. 3.9”? The
game gets admittedly harder but doesn’t that apply to the entire tournament field just like it happens in golf?
I know snooker is a tough game but the principles are consistent playing the table & with added accuracy.
I’d think that it would become infuriating to start missing shots and a professional would strive to just play
better than his opponents that should be struggle as much too. If they aren’t, then those players are better.
I’ll concede I’m a fan of tight pockets (4.25” CP) on a 9’ table but my game isn’t suited for smaller than that.
Any rotation game can be played out of a full rack; make rules for the extra balls, have at it.
But why smaller pockets?
it's the essence of competition - more, faster, higher, longer...
What's the object in pool? The opponent in question fell behind? All these comments about tight pockets act like tranqs on the game and viewers - I watch the loose pocket stuff and all I come away with is sheeit, I can do that. How come he missed that? Simple straight back woulda gottim out. I haven't seen a long cut all tournament!
Pool is a precision craft not a dog show.
4¼"
we don't know if the pockets were 3.9" or 3.8", but either way the difference between 2023 and 2024 is telling:
Break Stats -- 2024 UK Open Pool Championship (9-Ball), May 2024
Here are some aggregate break statistics from the 2024 UK Open Pool Championship played May 7-12, 2024 at the Telford International Centre in Telford, England. Pay-per-view streaming was provided in the USA on DAZN. This was a 239-player 9-Ball event (with a couple of no-shows), produced by...
forums.azbilliards.com
the hanoi open which i believe was the most recent MR promoted big field tourney before the UK open also had BNR close to 30% (and 4").
I think it makes a diff because it's at the slop margins (tempted to write margarines)
If we want to continue with the golf analogy, shrinking the pockets in pool is more analogous to forcing golf pros to play with pre-1990 equipment on an average-difficulty course. That way pro golfers would appear to play golf similar to good amateurs (given the same course), such that the pros won't appear to make the game look too easy. The average spectator would look at such a pro tournament and think, "What's the big deal? My scratch-golfer coworker can shoot a similar score at that course." They wouldn't know how much more difficult it is to shoot a low score with inferior equipment unless it is explicitly mentioned to the spectators...on a regular basis. And even if they are aware, many of them would simply not have an appreciation for how much difficult golf can be with outdated equipment.
Same goes for tightening the pockets sub 4". The average spectator would see a pro botch a run out by wobbling a semi-easy cut shot and might think that his neighbor who plays league pool is just as good as them. The commentators would have to remind the viewing audience constantly that they're playing on 3.9" pockets. And even then, many spectators...even those who play pool regularly...won't have an appreciation of how much more difficult that is.
The point is...there is huge value in making it immediately apparent to the casual viewer how much better pros are compared to everyone else. If the game appears too easy for the pros, don't change the game such that pros don't appear as good as they actually are. Rather, tweak the game to make it more difficult WITHOUT making the pros look less competent. If you do it right, then making the right adjustments would not only increase the game's difficulty but also makes it MORE obvious/apparent how much better the pros are than you. Reducing the pocket size sub 4" doesn't accomplish this. Though, I feel adding a few more balls in the rack would.
Yes, 3-7/8”, and it appears the pocket facing angles look like they are roughly 142°. These are closer to snooker pockets than pool pockets, even with new cloth.
To pocket a ball shot down the rail with any pace at all would have to be hit absolutely perfect, and it still might not drop.
Last edited:
throwing it in the kompyooter i get 3.87", with some uncertainty due to the tape obscuring the right point
George the Greek
Well-known member
Pot Black drew huge crowds to their tvs and it was pretty big back then. We had the opportunity to see the top players when they came to Toronto back in the day and even watch them practice at one of the local clubs/poolroom. The funniest comment came from Steve Davis at Le Spot when the electronic sign was flashing congratulations to Joe C. for his perfect game. Steve saw that and asked Joe who lol. Joe had a hell of a draw shot and could draw the CB from the OB 10ft away and draw it 12-15ft. He had a fantastic smooth stroke.
Was this consistent across all the tables?
it seems like it, going by players assessments. it would also be in line with the MR MO to standardize conditions across the field, this is also one of the reasons they don't have shot clock on TV tables while the other tables are still in play
Which make the TV table matches hard to watch, which is exactly the opposite of what pool needs.
Utilize the damn shot clocks! Geez.
someone did try a test balloon version of a game called american rotation, having some pros playing it. obviously it didn't catch on but i think it was a simplified version of rotation pool (61). i like one pocket myself, for me it's the ultimate cue sport discipline, even counting snooker and 3C. but i understand it's an impossible sell to sky sports haha
i actually think MR (and predator for that matter) should take a look at ultimate pool. not saying go full earl on the shot clock, but it doesn't hurt testing 5 sec shorter for one event? pool surely has the longest average shot time in all cue sports
Ghost of OBC
Well-known member
Couldn't agree more about Ultimate Pool as a model. They figured out how to speed up 8 Ball to make it fun to watch. Alternate breaks, shot clock, reasonable length sets, match clock, tie breaker, stuff that makes it sport-like. I think part of the popularity is its familiarity to sports like soccer, consistent action, and the predictability of the match length. 9 Ball is supposed to be the fast gambling game, but UP has made 8 ball quicker. Doesn't make sense.
Similar innovations wouldn't go far wrong for amateur leagues. There's probably an opportunity to make the ameteur game more like the pro game while improving both.
Last edited:
snookered_again
Well-known member
here's a solution to those who think their pockets are too small ;-)
Joe Tucker's American Rotation is/was a great game, but maybe not for building a fan base. It is a call pocket / call safe rotation game using all 15 balls. Balls numbered 1 to 10 count 1 point each and balls numbered 11-15 count 2 points each. So each full rack is worth 20 points. A match is a race to a designated number of points, such as 100 or 150, so it involves multiple racks. Breaks were alternated, and the breaker had ball in hand after the break.
Round-robin sessions were played in pool rooms around the country in, roughly, 2012-2015, culminating in regional playoffs and then national championships.