Arguing with experts

I am constantly comparing AZB personalities and communication with what I used to observe in pool halls. I am particularly curious how it is that certain idiots (I believe "trolls" is the current parlance) are able to remain here while they did not last long at all in the old places. Is it anonymity? Unavailability of physical violence? The quality of scorn that can be delivered in either? Surely we have a social scientist among us who can speak to this phenomena with an amount of authority.
You can't hide in a poolroom. Pool-detectives/lurkers/knock artists all get their nitty asses kicked out sooner or later. On-line you can hide behind your keyboard in mom's basement while you sweat Lithuanian midget porn and eat Cheeto's. Its not my site or call to make but some of the true troll 'artistes' should just be banned for life. I can be and often am a complete a-hole to those i think are just burning bandwidth but i also think i bring some degree(tiny at times i know) of knowledge/insight to the forum. Here lately the one's that chap my ass are those who use AZB for one thing and that is to do NOTHING but price/value crap cues they find in pawn shops/SalvArmy/thrift stores. Go get a life trolls.
 
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I have read a decent amount of threads since i have joined these forums. And I find it funny as hell seeing people argue with cue builders when they do not know what they are talking about.
There are cuemakers that absolutely are the experts to go to. The challenge is that there are a thousand people callilng themselves cuemaking experts that frankly aren't experts. We've had many on these boards that still get the occassional joke slung about.

And then there are people on these boards whose entire career is in manufacturing, assembly engineering, adhesive applications, motion controls, robotics, plastics, UV curing, . If cuemakers (or anyone like case builders, training device inventors, etc.) don't take advantage of the expertise in this AZB community when they have questions on these things, then I hope they are going to someone ..., a true recongnized indusrty expert in the whatever field. If not, then we could turn it around and wonder why they wouldn't.

It's entertaining, right?
 
There are cuemakers that absolutely are the experts to go to. The challenge is that there are a thousand people callilng themselves cuemaking experts that frankly aren't experts. We've had many on these boards that still get the occassional joke slung about.

And then there are people on these boards whose entire career is in manufacturing, assembly engineering, adhesive applications, motion controls, robotics, plastics, UV curing, . If cuemakers (or anyone like case builders, training device inventors, etc.) don't take advantage of the expertise in this AZB community when they have questions on these things, then I hope they are going to someone ..., a true recongnized indusrty expert in the whatever field. If not, then we could turn it around and wonder why they wouldn't.

It's entertaining, right?
This cat knows a TON and has steered me down the right path when researching Asian made cues. His knowledge of both the history and the tech. details are awesome.
 
There are, or were?, a lot of folks on here who know a whole lot and are willing to share. On the other side of it, you need folks who will shut up and listen. The folks who won't make it miserable for the rest.
 
So I take it those who are contributing to this thread think they are experts. LOL

We also need to call out these so called "experts".

A guy once told me he knew more than me because of his cue collection. Well I'm about to drop about 10k on cues and instant collection. LOL I'm the expert now!
 
I remember my report cards in elementary school. Very good grades, but always contained the sentences:

"Does not play well with others." and
"Lacks respect for authority."

Some experts are exactly that, experts. Some claiming to be experts, some even with disciples... but "they ain't know sheeiiiet." Many just bluff good enough to get the uninitiated to believe them. I've seen a few local instructors like this.

Lack's respect for authority usually was usually included due to a well calibrated bullshit detector that worked on adults. The does not play well with others is because if someone started shit I would finish it. Mainly when someone was bullying a weak kid I would intervene, which usually ended up with fighting. Not on my behalf, but who would have guessed that a bully doesn't want to appear weak by backing down from torturing some scrawny kid?
 
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When it comes to expertise, the problem is separating the wheat from the chaff. I've dealt with enough clueless "experts" in my life that I now maintain a healthy level of skepticism when engaging with them. The trick is not having so much skepticism that you dismiss actual worthy experts when you encounter them. This middle road doesn't seem to have much traffic on it on here or anywhere else for that matter.
True, Internet Slueths, and ego interfere with learning. Which end up with the Belief that the earth is flat- as an example

This is why the pro’s who used to frequent This forum eventually left. They would try to post information to help people or show them how they do things and of course the usual basements champions would argue with them and belittle them until they said f it and disappeared. Welcome to az billiards..
Which is sad, from what i understand of the community, there is not much reason or compensation for them to respond. Reputation-sure. But it seems to me the purpose is more as a community of pool enthusiasts sharing. The normal youtube comment thread of facebook arguing isnt helpful.

When it comes to expertise, the problem is separating the wheat from the chaff. I've dealt with enough clueless "experts" in my life that I now maintain a healthy level of skepticism when engaging with them. The trick is not having so much skepticism that you dismiss actual worthy experts when you encounter them. This middle road doesn't seem to have much traffic on it on here or anywhere else for that matter.
Excellent post, IMO….there are lots of experts, in any field, that you can’t give carte blanche to. You will be taken advantage of.
its important to have an open mind and prepare to be enlightened….but I WILL argue.
I'll Tell you my example with two highly trained doctors with many years of school and skill. and are experts in their field and profession.
But the point of the story is ONLY thier field should be taken seriously. i see many doctors for different reasons. I ask a lot of questions and sometimes get a second opinion from other doctors.

So the surgeon that operated on me multiple times from 2019-2022. I listen, i follow directions and ask questions. The last time i saw him for a check up was shortly before he retired. And my question that day was how i should time getting my Covid shot because i was on autoimmune medication for crohn's disease. it is a 3 hr long infusion.
I did not want the medication interfering with the shot and also didnt want the shot to have bad side effects to the weaken immune system.
His response was. " you know i'm an anti vaxxer right?" And then he proceeds to tell me that i should have hydroxychloroquine, all our familys should stock it.
Ok that wasnt going to happen. I was shocked that a surgeon doesn't believe in the science behind vaccines.

Second example of a doctor experience gone wrong. I was in the care of my gastro at my local hospital for a week, very sick. I was transfered by ambulance all the way to downtown chicago to be put under the care of my doctors mentor and teacher. someone famous in his field and has many awards. I was in good hands for the reason i was there.
While in that hospital for 2-3 weeks i developed Thrush. I have had it before and was very familiar with the symptoms.

https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/diseases/10956-thrush

I was already on a medication that also helped to keep thrush at bay, So when i told the doctor that i thought i had it, and showed the doctor my mouth. He said that isnt thrush, Don't worry about it. And refused to proscribe anything to help.
I pleaded with the other doctors to help, But there is always a main doctor that is in charge of your care.
The main doctor came back in a day or two later furious and reamed me out. Yelling at me that i am not in charge of what i need. That he is in charge.
When i finally got out of the hospital and home, I went immiediatly to my ear,nose, and throat doctor. He took one look in my mouth and prescribed the medication. It cleared up in a few days, as well as the pain and irritation.

Point of those stories is yes you can trust experts at what they are experts in. But that does not make them experts in other areas. always ask questions and keep learning. Not trolling.
 
I have read a decent amount of threads since i have joined these forums. And I find it funny as hell seeing people argue with cue builders when they do not know what they are talking about. Maybe it is just a matter of the way you word things, or maybe people are that full of themselves. I think it would be easier and more conducive to ask questions, listen and have a discussion. Certainly not as entertaining for me. lol. But I am sure it is not as much fun for the cue builders.

Our company does consulting and teaches classes worldwide as well as selling products to support our consulting.
One of the hardest lessens i had to learn was the phrase " i do not know, but i will find out" And be honest with the customer.
Oh, and i am not a pool cue expert either. Our business is wastewater.
I just felt like sharing. It is entertaining. and that is what we are here for right?
Dan

I would say that not all cue builders are knowledgeable about all aspects of the cue. For example, several I have seen post here do not understand LD and argue that it is a thing or has any benefits to a player. There are also some material knowledge that is may not be as well-known to them as an engineer would know it. They may know to "use X glue" but not really why, or that there may be a better one to use for a particular material.
 
I would say that not all cue builders are knowledgeable about all aspects of the cue. For example, several I have seen post here do not understand LD and argue that it is a thing or has any benefits to a player. There are also some material knowledge that is may not be as well-known to them as an engineer would know it. They may know to "use X glue" but not really why, or that there may be a better one to use for a particular material.

There is no cuebuilder that understands all aspects of a cue and cue building. No reason they should. They know how to build a good or great cue for the most part, they don't know the endless ways of doing it, no reason they should. The old masters didn't know a whole lot, they just knew a way that worked.

A friend paid $30,000 for a fiddle. He said he thought it would help him move up from third chair to second chair. I thought that a thumbtack would be a lot cheaper but Bob waited a few years and paid the cash without a whine. That was mid-nineties dollars too so probably twice that now. One thing interesting, the builder told him every instrument he built would be a very good one but one in twenty or thirty would be a great one. He couldn't pin down why or all his instruments would be great and he would be charging over fifty thousand for them.

I think it is much the same with the best cue builders. You are almost certain to get a very good quality cue but once in awhile somebody gets a great one. Not even the builder knows why or they would only build great cues.

Hu
 
People who continuously argue with experts typically lack the ability to accept they don't know everything and/or they could have bad information. This prevents them from shutting the hell up and just listening.
One thought also comes to mind when i see a lot of the threads on the forum. I think most would just consider them trolls. But i'm thinking of the people that comment the most, belittle and insult, and seem to think if they reply the most and have they last word that they are correct, or smarter. Knowledge doesnt work that way.
 
Excellent post, IMO….there are lots of experts, in any field, that you can’t give carte blanche to. You will be taken advantage of.
its important to have an open mind and prepare to be enlightened….but I WILL argue.
I agree with you. and i'm mainly thinking of in person and on the phone discussions. i don't really care for social media that much.
I will also argue but only if i am sure or mostly sure I know the answer. And I am always willing to listen and be proven wrong.
I find people in life that argue just to be in the conversation (or even worse-they believe the nonsense coming out of thier mouths) to be some of the biggest wastes of space.

An example of knowing the truth-
Our company works with companys that have to follow regulations by the EPA and the FDA. Usually one or the other. not both lol.
It is a common misconception among people. They have either learned it by word of mouth, Advertising or they think they just know better.
I will not give a % number, but for the most part tap water is way more healthy for you than bottled water.
I am specifically talking about regulated tap water-city water. not really well water that is different.
The bottling industry is regulated by the FDA and tap water by the EPA. the EPA has much more stringent regulations
On top of that it has taken a lot of time and research and health issues for them to discern what to add to tap water to help with the publics health.

Only real time it is not true is when there is a boil order and a notice has been put out to not drink the local water.
 
There are cuemakers that absolutely are the experts to go to. The challenge is that there are a thousand people callilng themselves cuemaking experts that frankly aren't experts. We've had many on these boards that still get the occassional joke slung about.

And then there are people on these boards whose entire career is in manufacturing, assembly engineering, adhesive applications, motion controls, robotics, plastics, UV curing, . If cuemakers (or anyone like case builders, training device inventors, etc.) don't take advantage of the expertise in this AZB community when they have questions on these things, then I hope they are going to someone ..., a true recongnized indusrty expert in the whatever field. If not, then we could turn it around and wonder why they wouldn't.

It's entertaining, right?
Ooh, you just made me think.
We encourage engineers to come to our classes. Engineers that design wastewater plants. these multimillion dollar plants that are sometimes just very poorly designed because the engineer does not understand the process. and the end user is the one that we have to consult and help. it drive us nuts
I assume this happens in other industries as well.
I hope it is not the case in the pool world. Meaning horrible machines that the cue builder has to find a work around for.
 
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