The smaller pockets are helping the weak players, its very deep and people don't see it.

jshaw said:
Skills mean nothing, just the rolls literally. Got it.
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I and every other gambler I knew peddled that for years. "I got the rolls." The best can make it seem like just the rolls.

I had a guy that played me two or three times a week. This went on for several months, then he quit me cold. "I am a better player than you are but I just can't outrun your luck!"

Hu
 
ShootingArts said:
I and every other gambler I knew peddled that for years. "I got the rolls." The best can make it seem like just the rolls.

I had a guy that played me two or three times a week. This went on for several months, then he quit me cold. "I am a better player than you are but I just can't outrun your luck!"

Hu
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The funny part is a lot of times you don't have to do anything special for them to think you got lucky. Just keep an even composure and don't act like you're up to no good. If you don't smirk when you leave them tough sometimes people assume it's luck. If you play a dead carom or such they think it's luck. A lot of people want to believe in luck so you really don't have to do anything special, just keep a steady demeanor, aka poker face.

They blame luck and rolls for wins and losses. Sure, sometimes this is true, but they believe it happens 10X more than it does... maybe protecting their own ego or something. It's hard to say.

When someone complains about a "lucky" shot I did in 9B I like to say "That's why I like 9B, it allows you to get creative." That usually gets them talking! Notice I neither confirmed or denied if it was luck or intentional. It may have been luck, but most likely it wasn't.

"I just had a good feeling on that one" "I knew something was going in the side pocket, just wasn't sure which one." "Heck I don't know, I just trusted my subconscious to make it work" "Oh you didn't know the 2 rail was dead?" and so on. I think a good BS detector is a must for pool, especially one that works on ourselves.
 
boogieman said:
The funny part is a lot of times you don't have to do anything special for them to think you got lucky. Just keep an even composure and don't act like you're up to no good. If you don't smirk when you leave them tough sometimes people assume it's luck. If you play a dead carom or such they think it's luck. A lot of people want to believe in luck so you really don't have to do anything special, just keep a steady demeanor, aka poker face.

They blame luck and rolls for wins and losses. Sure, sometimes this is true, but they believe it happens 10X more than it does... maybe protecting their own ego or something. It's hard to say.

When someone complains about a "lucky" shot I did in 9B I like to say "That's why I like 9B, it allows you to get creative." That usually gets them talking! Notice I neither confirmed or denied if it was luck or intentional. It may have been luck, but most likely it wasn't.

"I just had a good feeling on that one" "I knew something was going in the side pocket, just wasn't sure which one." "Heck I don't know, I just trusted my subconscious to make it work" "Oh you didn't know the 2 rail was dead?" and so on. I think a good BS detector is a must for pool, especially one that works on ourselves.
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When I make a tough shot I usually say in a totally emotionless tone, "it was dead." Makes my opponent wonder if it was really dead and did he leave me a shot I knew and he didn't. I had a friend walk up just as I shot a full cross table carom to take over a one pocket game when my opponent thought he had played a strong safety. I said it was dead then told my friend the answer to a question he couldn't interrupt a game to ask. "the cue ball had to be stunned for me to know the shot. That is why I shot that hard.

My opponent thought he had played a nice safety and no doubt he had nine times out of ten. He won't forget I was the tenth time. As Cisero Murphy said, a dead ball is easier to make than it is to see. Sometimes I see something like a carom angle at the first glance at a table. When I do the shot really is dead.

I used to get a chuckle when people exclaimed, "You couldn't make that shot again!"

"I only had to make it once." I never wanted the other player to know how big of an element of luck and how big an element of skill was in a shot. Makes them hesitate every time they go to play a safety after you seem to bust one without effort. I really do like crossover banks so I play them often. I was playing a friend when I fired in a crossover bank the length of the table. My friend's first reaction was to tap his cue butt on the floor. Gave him time to wonder. "Did you do that on purpose?"

I like crossover banks. The cue ball clears automatically. Like any shot the more you shoot them the easier they get. When two decent one pocket players are playing against each other sometimes the only way to get a shot is to tease them with a low percentage shot. Most soon learn that a crossover bank isn't the shot to tease me with.

Hu
 
smoochie said:
No, well.... domination is good for any sport, its really good because you got people divided into grps where they watch someone because they love him so much or they watch someone because they hate him so much... either way its so good for any sport. Removing this is a big issue for any sport leading into the reduction of viewership.

But this isn't the main issue for me, the issue is that if ITS TRUE, which I believe that it is...it only means one thing. It means that they have literally reduced the SKILL GAP between the elite and great and good....which means if there was a high skill cap between them where you could find some crazy good elites could runover some good players, this is now removed....Imagine a game with low skill gap, its bad....really really bad.

The result of this theory if proven true is only a reduction of skillcap & skill gap between players, its bad.
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Smaller pockets do prevent larger runs and make the game less of a power stroke game and more of a roll the cue game.
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Wouldn't say it makes it easier for worse players but I do think it takes a little away from the game. Makes it a little less esthetically pleasing for one thing.
 
Just got back from a bit of summer traveling. First time into my local hall tonight, and they've spruced it up with 40+ tables (snooker room, Chinese-8 room, 4.25" majority of tables and 10 or so 3.9" - all Rasson). Had a cheeky 'soft-opening' of the place this evening. It's still awaiting a couple of tables and final touches. But it's F awesome, best hall I have ever seen and could easily be one of the best in the world. I am guessing they will host the WNT events that are coming there at this store, and not the old competition location they were using in Shanghai. Absolutely in love with the place. Will post pictures of the place when I get time.

I have played a lot on the Mr. Sung tables (in halls and events), and I generally have no issue with them, and see them as good for the game of 9ball. I was also really enjoying playing a bit of standard 8ball on there this evening.

Haven't dived too much into this thread yet, but having looked at the title and first couple of posts. I whole-heartedly disagree. I think small pockets are exposing some players. Fine tuning others. Yes, there are more misses from 'top players' as they adjust (or don't) - this creates opportunities for lesser players to take (they still have to take them...).
 
9ballglue said:
Makes it a little less esthetically pleasing for one thing.
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Depends what you like to see, or find aesthetically pleasing.

As a newer convert to the sport, I can only re-watch old videos and try to appreciate with the context I can form in the present... sometimes it looks 'good' - sometimes it's like 'WTF just happened?'

In contrast to that, I can see 'what good looks like' on the current equipment in real time and have enjoyed playing on tighter pockets (It's my preference personaly). So, I do acknowledge because of this I have some bias to the precision element of the game that stalwarts or longtime followers might not.

But even in my short time enjoying the game (a year and a half-ish now), I haven't really noticed myself drastically changing style of play from table to table. It's still situational, subjective decision making controlling my game. I've played some amazing players, I've played some sub-par players. I have had times playing well or poorly in either context. I don't blame the tables one bit.
 
9ballglue said:
How could you argue slow rolling balls in with top spin is as fun to watch as loading up low left and swinging the cue around off the rails?
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Personally, I'm still seeing that when it's needed? Still seeing banks too. Lot more interesting safety play too. In the games I watch on the screen, tournaments I enter and in games I play casually.

I guess I like to see people scratch their chin a little before getting down and thumping them in.

I guess I find the games I've watched on bigger pockets quite one dimensional. Can count on one hand the games (outside of a bar) that I have played on tables with pockets bigger than 4.25" - I guess because of the background (foreground really being in China :ROFLMAO:) Chinese-8 ball here, small pockets is the 'go-to' for most people who enjoy playing more than casually.

Trying to decide whether to scan through this whole thread before bed now haha
 
Flakeandrun said:
Personally, I'm still seeing that when it's needed? Still seeing banks too. Lot more interesting safety play too. In the games I watch on the screen, tournaments I enter and in games I play casually.
Flakeandrun said:
But even in my short time enjoying the game (a year and a half-ish now), I haven't really noticed myself drastically changing style of play from table to table. It's still situational
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You are more likely to play a safe on a tight pocket fast cloth.
 
9ballglue said:
You are more likely to play a safe on a tight pocket fast cloth.
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Yes, agree with you, my point was that I am still seeing the big shots come out of the bag (but don't think I really have to frame of reference beyond watching old matches on YT for the more flamboyant years of the game - which at times becomes very one dimensional to my eye). I personally like that smaller pockets discourages or imparts doubt in the mind of A-list players, especially when the score is tight.
 
I think every pocket on the table should be a different size and shape.

Did we ever get a concise hypothesis for why smaller pockets favor the weaker player? For every scenario where it could help the weaker player, they could also favor the stronger player. As far as lack of dominance goes, I'm not convinced that there's a big difference in today's game compared to the days of yore. And if there is a difference, I think we have more high caliber players today.
 
I don't think the op can make the case he wanted to initially make. A case that can be made is that it affected the game negatively. Diamond pool tables has the best marketing team in pool though so don't expect the masses to disagree with their takeover.
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To me it a mild change for the worse to move to the hyperspeed tight m/ weird cut pockets of the Diamonds. Still love the tables just not as much.
 
9ballglue said:
I don't think the op can make the case he wanted to initially make. A case that can be made is that it affected the game negatively. Diamond pool tables has the best marketing team in pool though so don't expect the masses to disagree with their takeover.
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To me it a mild change for the worse to move to the hyperspeed tight m/ weird cut pockets of the Diamonds. Still love the tables just not as much.
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I'm not a big fan of the deep shelf on diamonds. Sometimes the ball will be sitting so deep that you can't play position off of it. I'd rather the pockets spit the balls out than keep them that deep.
 
tomatoshooter said:
I'm not a big fan of the deep shelf on diamonds. Sometimes the ball will be sitting so deep that you can't play position off of it. I'd rather the pockets spit the balls out than keep them that deep.
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I was going to mention that as well. That definitely is part of the tight pocket situation.
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Last week I had a tournament where I had a tough shot full table length where I had to stun draw with the cue near the rail to get to the 8 next. I had a couple easier safe options but I like to go for it if I can. I made the shot on any other table it just didn't fall because of the cut and deep shelf of the diamond. Position was perfect. The guy I was playing would never had been able to play that shot. He was playing safes when he had pretty easy outs. I could do that but I don't like that type of pool.
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In this way the diamonds do allow less skilled players to win some small races. I don't think it works as well in longer races. Had that shot went in my opponent would have missed alot more shots because a powerful stroke/ shot maker is intimidating to players that tap balls.
 
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