Corner Pocket Angle U.S. Open

Ro everyone thinking the miter angles vary on Diamond tables. I'd be interested in knowing how that's even possible since all pocket miter angles on cut on a CNC machine, and NOT by hand!! Diamond cuts thousands of pockets, and they ALL come out the same, so I'm curious how the CNC machine can slip in a corner pocket with miter angles of 143 - 144???? I'd love to hear your explanations!!! And for what is worth, Diamond don't use toy miter angle gages to check their work😅🤣
 
I was going to measure our leagues Diamond tables last week to compare to mine at home but forgot to bring my gauge. Will try and remember tomorrow night. If you are referencing my two gauges you are right, they are somewhat cheap, but both read the exact same on a sample 45 deg cut I made on a piece of wood in my shop, and my Starrett read exactly 45 deg on that also. So could all 4 things be off, possibly, but I doubt enough to matter. What could be off is how you measure or how carefully you hold the protractor. That could possibly be off 1/2-1 deg depending on how you measure or how sloppy you are, but not 2 or 3 deg.
I am not going to buy an expensive angle gauge just to prove a point when my two protractors and my Starrett tool all measure exactly the same on a test 45 deg cut made in my shop. By the way, I don't consider a Starrett a toy.
I'm still looking for an answer as to how to measure for 141 deg? Is it following the front rail nose then up the top edge of the rail angle, or is it the rail nose and straight back the pocket angle? There is a difference of about a deg with the top edge being the higher deg.
Really not doubting you RC, I'm just curious in knowing as my table plays different, rattles balls more, than all other Diamond tables I have played on and actually play on every week. Even friends of ours that play on ours, and the ones in our league say my table is challenging in comparison, and yet I have the 4 3/4" pockets. I wish we had got the 4 1/2" ones.
What is tough is trying to get a picture of the protractor when it's parallel to the nose, ie down apx 3/16" in the back.
I'll try to remember tomorrow.
 
muskyed said:
I was going to measure our leagues Diamond tables last week to compare to mine at home but forgot to bring my gauge. Will try and remember tomorrow night. If you are referencing my two gauges you are right, they are somewhat cheap, but both read the exact same on a sample 45 deg cut I made on a piece of wood in my shop, and my Starrett read exactly 45 deg on that also. So could all 4 things be off, possibly, but I doubt enough to matter. What could be off is how you measure or how carefully you hold the protractor. That could possibly be off 1/2-1 deg depending on how you measure or how sloppy you are, but not 2 or 3 deg.
I am not going to buy an expensive angle gauge just to prove a point when my two protractors and my Starrett tool all measure exactly the same on a test 45 deg cut made in my shop. By the way, I don't consider a Starrett a toy.
I'm still looking for an answer as to how to measure for 141 deg? Is it following the front rail nose then up the top edge of the rail angle, or is it the rail nose and straight back the pocket angle? There is a difference of about a deg with the top edge being the higher deg.
Really not doubting you RC, I'm just curious in knowing as my table plays different, rattles balls more, than all other Diamond tables I have played on and actually play on every week. Even friends of ours that play on ours, and the ones in our league say my table is challenging in comparison, and yet I have the 4 3/4" pockets. I wish we had got the 4 1/2" ones.
What is tough is trying to get a picture of the protractor when it's parallel to the nose, ie down apx 3/16" in the back.
I'll try to remember tomorrow.
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Bigger openings have a deeper pocket shelf. That's why your table plays tougher.

The facing angle can be distorted, if the installer stretches the cloth too tight.

The measurement should be from the leading edge of the cushion, along the same horizontal plane, to the back of the pocket.
 
Thanks, I knew that the wider pocket had a slightly deeper shelf and was some of the problem. Also it's good to hear a qualified person confirm where I thought it should be measured as it only makes sense as the ball doesn't actually touch the top edge of the angle back.
So, my rails were done at the Diamond factory, and most, measuring the way you suggest, and I agree with, measure 143 deg, with two of the angles measuring about 142 deg. Yes, I am using some inexpensive protractors but cut a sample 45 deg cut on my $900 miter saw and both protractors, and a Starrett head I have all check out exactly with each other. So, the odds of those protractors being off even a half a deg are debatable. I'll enclose a picture of the two protractors in a few minutes. Also am going to try and remember to bring one along to tomorrows league to see how other Diamonds measure.
I have trust in Cobra and what he says, and everything he does for us, but my measurements aren't adding up and I'm not off 2 deg in how I measure.
Thank you for replying and trying to help.
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I checked the Diamond table, parallel to the nose edge, last night that I played on. 142 deg, mine 143 deg.
Will try another table or two next week for a comparison as I had to leave early for home and most other tables were still busy.
 
muskyed said:
I checked the Diamond table, parallel to the nose edge, last night that I played on. 142 deg, mine 143 deg.
Will try another table or two next week for a comparison as I had to leave early for home and most other tables were still busy.
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I can tell you this from experience. The tighter the cloth is pulled over the facing in the pockets, the more it will compress, or bend if you will, the miter angles of the pocket. Just for giggles, take a straight edge, place it at the back of the pocket facing, in the far back of the throat of the pocket. Put just enough pressure on the straight edge to flatten it against the facing, applying only the pressure it takes to hold it against the back end of the facing. When doing that, take a look and see if the straight edge stays in contact with the facing all the way out to the point of the pocket, or if the facing starts to show a gap between the straight edge and the rest of the pocket facing towards the mouth of the pocket. I bet you'll find your 2 degrees there. My starrett miter angles reaches all the way to the back of the pocket facings, then the ruler parallels the cushion about a foot. I can tell where the miter angle is, and how much the outer half of the facing and cushion has been compressed by the tightness of the cloth wrapped around the end of the rails.
 
Took your advice as it made sense, and I totally believed you as to only one angle setting possible when cutting at the factory, and made an 1 1/2" extension for my protractor. While it looks crude, it was precisely matched to the head and sanded flat before hand. It also allowed me to measure to the back of the angle.
As expected, it then came out to 141 deg.
The front half of the angle takes a curve out to the 143 degree I was measuring without the extension. It was not so noticeable by eye untill I had the extension on.
So thanks to you and Bradshaw for all your help.
realkingcobra said:
The back of the facing is supported by wood, the outer 2/3rds is rubber and neoprene, and is subject to compression!
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When I said 'toy" tools, my meaning was simply being, they're ok for simple things, but for this kind of work, they're just to short to give you the accuracy you need. Which is why I felt I owed you an explanation so you'd have a better understanding instead of leaving you scratching your head trying to figure our why🫲
 
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