The Zone -- Are We There Yet?

[WobblyStroke]

"The older I get the better I used to be" (Lee Trevino) I don`t think the zone really exists any more than I believe in Santa. I think our memory tricks us into thinking we actually occupied a higher plane, when the explanation is actually pretty simple. You have a base ability, sometimes you play below, sometimes above. There is nothing supernatural going on, you are just having a good day. Do we have a cute word for when we are playing bad? The anti zone?

Measurable brain waves would disagree. Performing tasks effortlessly and fluently is a characteristic of alpha and theta brain wave states. It's def a thing. Players not remembering details of their performance also fits nicely.

 

[ShootingArts]

Measurable brain waves would disagree. Performing tasks effortlessly and fluently is a characteristic of alpha and theta brain wave states. It's def a thing. Players not remembering details of their performance also fits nicely.

I need to brush up on my reading myself. I remember reading about alpha waves but not details now, it has been decades. I may have read about theta waves but if I have I don't remember without some reminders.

Things are different for different people. I have clear memories of what happened after I came out of the zone unlike some. One guy I talked to came up to me explaining his last run. His senses opened up, all the information he wasn't used to came rushing in, he panicked and crashed. Just a horrible score shooting that relay, he was a pistol shooter. We weren't close enough I wanted to explain to him for hours and he might have been one of those devoted skeptics anyway.

Hu

 

[straightline]

Are we at reality is mental yet?

 

[skip100]

Being in the zone is obviously great, but as Bob Rotella says:

"I tell players, If two or three times a year you were in the zone for a whole round, that'd be fantastic -- but it isn't as if we know how to reproduce that. The guys who are great are great because of how they play when they're not in the zone."

 

[ShootingArts]

No clue who Bob Rotella is. Talking about golf I guess since rounds are mentioned. How long is a round? Nine or eighteen holes? There is no reason to have to stay in the zone that long or even in and out of it for that long unless dealing with equally skilled players also dipping into the zone.

60+ or 120+ strokes in a round of golf? Each stroke is an opportunity to drop into the zone. Even ten to twenty percent successful would lower a score noticeably. With practice doing it I think it might be possible to drop into the zone1/3 to 1/2 of the time which would probably lower your handicap significantly.

Edit: I should mention that after learning to drive I was 100% successful finding the zone driving cars I drove weekly.

Hu

 

[Highmiles]

Interesting that this came up, as it has been on my mind lately. When I was younger, my best shooting was when I could shut everything out and get total concentration. Now I am very old and that works to some degree, but physical limitations interfere with my execution, eye strain being one of them. This brings me to my interest in the topic, since for the last few months I have experienced something new. I find myself approaching the table feeling totally detached from the game at hand. I see only one shot as I approach the table and I take it. I don’t aim, so much as just shoot knowing the ball is going in the center of the pocket. I don’t actively think about position of the cue ball, but I know it will be where I want it for my next shot. Throughout all this, my brain is clear, and everything is automatic. The only problem comes when I stop and consider cue ball position. The act of actually thinking about where to put it breaks the spell, and the ball will go where I want, but I will miss the shot. When I go back to detachment, it comes back.
I’m not sure if this is the ”zone”, but I like it and it has resulted in many lopsided games that used to be close matches against similarly skilled players.
I’m curious if anyone else has felt this?

 

[Mensabum]

So am I to now understand that the spectral observers of my nascent struggles to master the basics of the pool hall who spoke only rarely to provide me terse guidance (and then apparently compelled only by a growing intolerance of my abuse of the game and resulting degradation of their environment) were in fact western incarnations of Shaolin priests?

Ahh grasshopper.

 

[Biloxi Boy]

In tennis there is no time to think.

 

[Mensabum]

"The older I get the better I used to be" (Lee Trevino) I don`t think the zone really exists any more than I believe in Santa. I think our memory tricks us into thinking we actually occupied a higher plane, when the explanation is actually pretty simple. You have a base ability, sometimes you play below, sometimes above. There is nothing supernatural going on, you are just having a good day. Do we have a cute word for when we are playing bad? The anti zone?

It's not supernatural, just different states of mind.

 

[Badpenguin]

You might consider reading The Inner Game of Tennis, it covers quite a bit of this.

 

[Mensabum]

Interesting that this came up, as it has been on my mind lately. When I was younger, my best shooting was when I could shut everything out and get total concentration. Now I am very old and that works to some degree, but physical limitations interfere with my execution, eye strain being one of them. This brings me to my interest in the topic, since for the last few months I have experienced something new. I find myself approaching the table feeling totally detached from the game at hand. I see only one shot as I approach the table and I take it. I don’t aim, so much as just shoot knowing the ball is going in the center of the pocket. I don’t actively think about position of the cue ball, but I know it will be where I want it for my next shot. Throughout all this, my brain is clear, and everything is automatic. The only problem comes when I stop and consider cue ball position. The act of actually thinking about where to put it breaks the spell, and the ball will go where I want, but I will miss the shot. When I go back to detachment, it comes back.
I’m not sure if this is the ”zone”, but I like it and it has resulted in many lopsided games that used to be close matches against similarly skilled players.
I’m curious if anyone else has felt this?

When conscious thought about shape or whatever works it's way back into the mix, you've dropped out. You've superceded the unconscious ability to execute by overriding natural ability and calling that into question. The conscious side. The losing money side. Lol.

 

[ShootingArts]

When conscious thought about shape or whatever works it's way back into the mix, you've dropped out. You've superceded the unconscious ability to execute by overriding natural ability and calling that into question. The conscious side. The losing money side. Lol.

I think we are on exactly the same page. For me thinking in words seems to always come from the conscious. I can't be in the zone letting the unconscious run things and think in words. One dominates or the other.

We can practice longer and longer periods of getting the verbal brain to shut up. One of the things I advocate is an inning at the table being one continuous action, not individual shots. This does interfere with the three balls ahead technique but having planned the entire inning is there any reason to drop back to three balls ahead?

The way I move around the table changes when I kick things into "flow". That isn't quite the zone but the zone is just around a nearby corner. Practice partners that had planned to finish the session with a short set kicking my butt realize it isn't going to happen. When they moved to a higher gear with intense focus, I relaxed focus on individual shots and focused on entire innings either to a runout or rock solid safety before my first shot on the table.

Our understanding of the zone has changed a lot in the last twenty years. Another twenty or so may find entire teams able to control it. Can you picture an entire basketball or soccer team coming at you in the zone so they are all acting as one?

Hu

 

[boogieman]

There is a good thread currently going strong, Which Variable Is the Cause of Most Missed Shots, in which this subject surfaced. This will open another can of worms, but what the hell . . .

At some point in my pool life, I found myself slipping into two very closely related states, both of which I came to describe as being "in the zone". One was a purely meditative/trance-like state which sometimes occurred when I was playing alone just running/pocketing balls. It was definitely not "practice", and the end result was that time seem to stand still and the world became calm and distant. My other zone was a competitive one in which my game reached a new level -- whatever you want to call it, I believe we've all been there.

Over in the other thread, Senior Tom wrote "When we get too much into our conscious mind, we have a tendency to mess up the shot. In the zone, it doesn't take a lot of thinking, just doing. 'Just do it !'"

So the "Succinct Police" don't bust me, I am going to stop here, and let y'all have it.

What is the Zone? How do we get there? Where can it take us?

The Zone is closely related to feel, as in the sensation of touch. Your body awareness takes over and your head is quiet. The head being quiet is the key part in my opinion.

Anyone who's ever ran a rack of 9B will usually have times when they don't even realize it was a BNR until their opponent or a spectator says something. That tells me the subconscious is shooting. You're not judging yourself or thinking while playing.

Think while up, make a decision and commit fully. Flip the switch into "shooter mode" and carry out whatever you decided while thinking. Thinking and execution do not go well together. Keep em separate.

Some days we just see stuff better, as in layouts, ideas to get shape, how to spin the ball around etc. I think it's entirely related to mind state. In the zone is in the moment, it's why you don't remember the shots. They are just a shot like any other shot.

Some days you struggle. It could be lack of confidence, thinking about other life issues, pain levels zapping concentration, etc. All I can say is on the good days, enjoy them and don't try to catch lightning in a bottle because this is when the zone vanishes. It's a flowing thing and letting it happen is about the only way for it to happen. I don't think it can be forced easily.

 

[Johnny Rosato]

There is a good thread currently going strong, Which Variable Is the Cause of Most Missed Shots, in which this subject surfaced. This will open another can of worms, but what the hell . . .

At some point in my pool life, I found myself slipping into two very closely related states, both of which I came to describe as being "in the zone". One was a purely meditative/trance-like state which sometimes occurred when I was playing alone just running/pocketing balls. It was definitely not "practice", and the end result was that time seem to stand still and the world became calm and distant. My other zone was a competitive one in which my game reached a new level -- whatever you want to call it, I believe we've all been there.

Over in the other thread, Senior Tom wrote "When we get too much into our conscious mind, we have a tendency to mess up the shot. In the zone, it doesn't take a lot of thinking, just doing. 'Just do it !'"

So the "Succinct Police" don't bust me, I am going to stop here, and let y'all have it.

What is the Zone? How do we get there? Where can it take us?

Ain't sure what zone I'm in but anytime I overhear friends talking about me they're always mentioning
something like "yeah, 'ole Johnny's really out there tonight"

 

[Mensabum]

I think we are on exactly the same page. For me thinking in words seems to always come from the conscious. I can't be in the zone letting the unconscious run things and think in words. One dominates or the other.

We can practice longer and longer periods of getting the verbal brain to shut up. One of the things I advocate is an inning at the table being one continuous action, not individual shots. This does interfere with the three balls ahead technique but having planned the entire inning is there any reason to drop back to three balls ahead?

The way I move around the table changes when I kick things into "flow". That isn't quite the zone but the zone is just around a nearby corner. Practice partners that had planned to finish the session with a short set kicking my butt realize it isn't going to happen. When they moved to a higher gear with intense focus, I relaxed focus on individual shots and focused on entire innings either to a runout or rock solid safety before my first shot on the table.

Our understanding of the zone has changed a lot in the last twenty years. Another twenty or so may find entire teams able to control it. Can you picture an entire basketball or soccer team coming at you in the zone so they are all acting as one?

Hu

Frightening aspect, but wouldn't surprise me one bit. More and more people are starting to get wind of this and attempt to apply what they've heard or seen. This was all sacred info back in the day. Now it's available to just about any decent player willing to open their minds and work towards playing at that level.

 

[ShootingArts]

Frightening aspect, but wouldn't surprise me one bit. More and more people are starting to get wind of this and attempt to apply what they've heard or seen. This was all sacred info back in the day. Now it's available to just about any decent player willing to open their minds and work towards playing at that level.

Truly amazing what is out there now. Of course you have to be able to separate the wheat from the chaff. I bought a book named something like "finding the zone". Written by a guy with a PhD, a MD, and a competitive runner all in one! This had potential. Total flop. Apparently he had never been in the zone. His idea was the mind and body ready to race was the zone. The book was cheap and had some value concerning other things but was totally worthless concerning the zone.

I started working on the mental game in my teens, realizing I needed to apply it to racing. Soon I realized it applied to pool, even life. A part of my success at anything I have done is due to my mental game.

Hu

 

[Mensabum]

Truly amazing what is out there now. Of course you have to be able to separate the wheat from the chaff. I bought a book named something like "finding the zone". Written by a guy with a PhD, a MD, and a competitive runner all in one! This had potential. Total flop. Apparently he had never been in the zone. His idea was the mind and body ready to race was the zone. The book was cheap and had some value concerning other things but was totally worthless concerning the zone.

I started working on the mental game in my teens, realizing I needed to apply it to racing. Soon I realized it applied to pool, even life. A part of my success at anything I have done is due to my mental game.

Hu

It absolutely applies to all areas of your life.
I'm a musician as well as a pool player. I have a life outside of billiards. Lol.
Anyhoo, I used my ability to play an instrument to learn how to achieve what everyone refers to as the 'Zone' or 'Dead Stroke' for us Old Heads. Lol.
I call it a 'Flow State' myself. Being in the flow.
I don't have to recall which position my hands need to be in while playing my horn. I don't even think about any of that. I see the music and let all those hours of practice come to the forefront and execute the piece I'm playing. I get out of my head and let the unconscious take control.
Same goes for pool. Now guys will argue that you've got to think about how the rack lays in order to get out and what juice you need to get shape, etc...
When you're doing all this, there's too much traffic and noise going on in your head. B4 you know it, background starts to creep in. Juke box, music, people talking, loud noises, you start to think, "what if I miss this?" Metabolism increases and that trickle of sweat forms on the brow. You're now paying attention to things irrelevant to what you're trying to achieve at present. Conscious mind in control. You have a better chance of throwing a snowball in hell and hitting the sun than you do getting in flow now. (Or Zone.)
You must quiet this part of your mind.
It takes practice and hard work, but doable for anyone willing to put in the effort, imo. Ala they have the requisite tools to begin with of course.
You must learn how to stop thinking without falling asleep!!
Let the unconscious and muscle memory make the choices and decisions for you. When you're in the zone, you're not evaluating the table lie or what speed and juice you need for next shot bcuz all those things dwell in the unconscious and it's doing all the work. Your body just shows up and clocks in. Lol.
That's why you can't recall much or any of what transpired while in a flow state or the Zone.
Same as when you're driving a vehicle and before you know it, you've gone 20 miles and can't recall a damn thing about those 20 miles.
But you drove just fine didn't you?? You don't know bcuz you can't remember, but all the other drivers would have let you know real fast if you had driven poorly.
I have a touch of the spectrum. Asperger's. Fortunately I've been able to capitalize on all the benefits and none of the deficits associated with a spectrum disorder. This may explain why I'm able to enter alpha and/or Theta states quickly and remain there for longer periods of time than normal folks.
Anyone familiar with Aspi's knows to what I refer.
Apologies for the novel. Wasn't my intention when initially responding here.
Just kinda went w the flow. Lol.

 

[straightline]

It absolutely applies to all areas of your life.
I'm a musician as well as a pool player. I have a life outside of billiards. Lol.
Anyhoo, I used my ability to play an instrument to learn how to achieve what everyone refers to as the 'Zone' or 'Dead Stroke' for us Old Heads. Lol.
I call it a 'Flow State' myself. Being in the flow.
I don't have to recall which position my hands need to be in while playing my horn. I don't even think about any of that. I see the music and let all those hours of practice come to the forefront and execute the piece I'm playing. I get out of my head and let the unconscious take control.
Same goes for pool. Now guys will argue that you've got to think about how the rack lays in order to get out and what juice you need to get shape, etc...
When you're doing all this, there's too much traffic and noise going on in your head. B4 you know it, background starts to creep in. Juke box, music, people talking, loud noises, you start to think, "what if I miss this?" Metabolism increases and that trickle of sweat forms on the brow. You're now paying attention to things irrelevant to what you're trying to achieve at present. Conscious mind in control. You have a better chance of throwing a snowball in hell and hitting the sun than you do getting in flow now. (Or Zone.)
You must quiet this part of your mind.
It takes practice and hard work, but doable for anyone willing to put in the effort, imo. Ala they have the requisite tools to begin with of course.
You must learn how to stop thinking without falling asleep!!
Let the unconscious and muscle memory make the choices and decisions for you. When you're in the zone, you're not evaluating the table lie or what speed and juice you need for next shot bcuz all those things dwell in the unconscious and it's doing all the work. Your body just shows up and clocks in. Lol.
That's why you can't recall much or any of what transpired while in a flow state or the Zone.
Same as when you're driving a vehicle and before you know it, you've gone 20 miles and can't recall a damn thing about those 20 miles.
But you drove just fine didn't you?? You don't know bcuz you can't remember, but all the other drivers would have let you know real fast if you had driven poorly.
I have a touch of the spectrum. Asperger's. Fortunately I've been able to capitalize on all the benefits and none of the deficits associated with a spectrum disorder. This may explain why I'm able to enter alpha and/or Theta states quickly and remain there for longer periods of time than normal folks.
Anyone familiar with Aspi's knows to what I refer.
Apologies for the novel. Wasn't my intention when initially responding here.
Just kinda went w the flow. Lol.

This more or less nails it for me. Musicians by the time they can play tunes and pieces, have pretty much mapped out the zone. The notes, intonation, rhythm; gotta get all that wired before you can begin to play. By the time they become professionally skilled, the zone _is the gig_. The plus/minus becomes very narrow and those still clamming it don't get called.

So pool... you need to love it. Every time you do it, it's your sanctuary. What I'm saying essentially is practice the zone; slowly and passionately. Learn it and make it grow. Small steps...

 

[gregcantrall]

wish I could remember it'.

Well I knew I had reading ahead when I opened this thread. So much good that I am reading and identifying with in so many posts and I am only on on 14 of 20something.
So many memories and stories triggered. Mostly previously told. Wi
nk.
My favorite is after making an extreme cut on the 8 ball for the win. At the handshake my opponent said incredulous, "you shot that left handed!" I honestly had to look down as I knew that rising out of the stance I met him directly at the hands. So with the cue balanced in the Left, I looked up and replied, "I guess I did."
The zone is being able to bring full focus to the problem at hand. The solution always starts with the big eye. Imagination. Imagine the shot before getting down. Credit uh a player from Portland that was incredible. Pretty sure he's with Cole.

 

[gregcantrall]

I don`t think the zone really exists any more than I believe in Santa.

So you won't be sitting on my lap at the upcoming Christmas gig? Sorry you feel that way. Yes I Play Santa. My favorite was at FOB Kalsu in Iraq. I was taught that Santa is about the spirit in your heart. Well at the age when the illusion is revealed.
Pretend even works on the pool table. When I am standing at survey with hand cradling chin, I ask myself "what would Efren do?" Then I pretend.