Stories about the first time talent was recognized?

DaWizard

DaWizard

Well-known member
One thing that fascinates me is the moment when talent is recognized. When people look at eachother and wonder "what is happening here?"

Do you have some first hand or second hand stories of such moments? Could be of well known pros or the ones who never reached fame.

I myself actually (kind of) discovered a national champ! Long ago I was making trickshots compilations for youtube. I searched every corner of youtube for cool shots. While editing I noticed one boy having some really original shots. It was the time when you could still send messages on youtube to users. So I send him a message saying: "dude, your shots are different!" Coincidentally he was also Dutch and was playing alone in the garage. I told him to post his videos on the now defunct www.poolkrant.nl. There Alex Lely noticed him and hooked him up with various people. His name is Jop de Jong and has won various national championships in artistic billiards. Would he have been discovered without me? No doubt! Still I'm happy I directed him to Poolkrant, speeding up the process.
 
DaWizard said:
One thing that fascinates me is the moment when talent is recognized. When people look at eachother and wonder "what is happening here?"

Do you have some first hand or second hand stories of such moments? Could be of well known pros or the ones who never reached fame.

I myself actually (kind of) discovered a national champ! Long ago I was making trickshots compilations for youtube. I searched every corner of youtube for cool shots. While editing I noticed one boy having some really original shots. It was the time when you could still send messages on youtube to users. So I send him a message saying: "dude, your shots are different!" Coincidentally he was also Dutch and was playing alone in the garage. I told him to post his videos on the now defunct www.poolkrant.nl. There Alex Lely noticed him and hooked him up with various people. His name is Jop de Jong and has won various national championships in artistic billiards. Would he have been discovered without me? No doubt! Still I'm happy I directed him to Poolkrant, speeding up the process.
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We currently have a high school young man who comes in and plays with his buddies, all of whom are likely athletic high school football/basketball/baseball players. They are all bangers except for him. I’ve watched him and this kid has got it including near perfect natural alignment and mechanics.

I’ve spoken with him privately to tell him that he has a rare natural talent for the game and has what it takes to get really good really fast if he has the desire and commitment to pursue it, but that it won’t ever happen if he chooses to just bang balls around with his buddies.

We’ve yet to see whether he decides to take the next step to come in by himself to practice, play with better players and start playing in our weekly handicap tournaments.

I can’t help but wonder how many other young men or women who have that kind of natural gift/talent for the game, but will never be discovered or realized because they likely will never have a place where they have the opportunity to be introduced to the game.
 
ChrisinNC said:
We currently have a high school young man who comes in and plays with his buddies, all of whom are likely athletic high school football/basketball/baseball players. They are all bangers except for him. I’ve watched him and this kid has got it including near perfect natural alignment and mechanics.

I’ve spoken with him privately to tell him that he has a rare natural talent for the game and has what it takes to get really good really fast if he has the desire and commitment to pursue it, but that it won’t ever happen if he chooses to just bang balls around with his buddies.

We’ve yet to see whether he decides to take the next step to come in by himself to practice, play with better players and start playing in our weekly handicap tournaments.

I can’t help but wonder how many other young men or women who have that kind of natural gift/talent for the game, but will never be discovered or realized because they likely will never have a place where they have the opportunity to be introduced to the game.
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I feel that’s why the game is starting to grow. As the money grows more young people will look it as a viable sport/game for them to play and have a future if they work at it.
 
ChrisinNC said:
I can’t help but wonder how many other young men or women who have that kind of natural gift/talent for the game, but will never be discovered or realized because they likely will never have a place where they have the opportunity to be introduced to the game.
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The bars are filled with them -- chained psychologically to their 7 foot tables. Without access to knowledgeable players and 9 foot tables -- "the schools of pool" found in "real" pool halls -- that is where they will remain.
 
X2 Biloxi Boy , I know of a young fella in Billings that most people won't beat on either a 7' or even 9' tables , he does very well until he gets burned out as he once mentioned to me when we visited .

There's 9' tables in Billings but no where else other than home tables , and yes there's a few better than most who as you mentioned won't or don't want to step up to the big 9' tables , where I'd do it in a heartbeat if my hands would work right ! Darn arthritis anyway !
 
This is a much more rare occurrence today than - say in the early, mid 1960s. First off, you have so few pool rooms open where a casual player can meet with friends and get an intro to the game on 9 foot tables. This was usually where that passion that most on here feel for the game did ignite and turn into a burning desire to return to the rooms over and over again and progress to a higher proficiency level.

Secondly, I'm sorry, but the novice player and his buddies need to pocket a decent amount of balls to get that feeling of " joy" from the game- GCs from years ago at 4 7/8 allowed the game to be a more instant source of fun for the novice players ( actually pocketing balls!). -- you are NOT getting that with 4 1/2 deeper shelf pocketed, super fast table set ups. The novice will have no control over a CB flying around the table and not enough balls going in the hole to allow the game to appear reasonably controllable or reasonably fun to play.

Third, we don't have a very good pool school set up around the U.S. to train youth on the game from an early age so that they have the true fundamentals required to even begin to master the demanding equipment in place today at higher levels of the game.

Fourth, instant gratification rules most your people's minds today- ( see social media, internet) - getting good at pool was always far from instant; and now even further when you have tougher tables that demand even more excellence for even moderate initial success.

Five, big, big money in college and pro sports have spurned youth specialization in sports from a very early age- eliminating participation time in any " fringe" type activities such as pool for youngsters---- money in pool is still very, very much on the low, low rung of the sports $$$ ladder. Years ago there were boys clubs in every decent sized city in America and every one of them had pool tables, many had regional and even some led to national competition for boys age 9 to 14. Thousands upon thousands of boys played daily, weekly in these clubs, many continued to play the game for life- some became top talents nationally.

I will add one more important factor here in the U.S. many of your great players were initiated into the game in rooms owned by their fathers or relatives - think Mizerak, Mosconi, Hoppe, Margo, Zuglan, Balukas, Butera, Balsis, Fusco, etc. etc. - not many room owners left today.
 
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ChrisinNC said:
We currently have a high school young man who comes in and plays with his buddies, all of whom are likely athletic high school football/basketball/baseball players. They are all bangers except for him. I’ve watched him and this kid has got it including near perfect natural alignment and mechanics.

I’ve spoken with him privately to tell him that he has a rare natural talent for the game and has what it takes to get really good really fast if he has the desire and commitment to pursue it, but that it won’t ever happen if he chooses to just bang balls around with his buddies.

We’ve yet to see whether he decides to take the next step to come in by himself to practice, play with better players and start playing in our weekly handicap tournaments.

I can’t help but wonder how many other young men or women who have that kind of natural gift/talent for the game, but will never be discovered or realized because they likely will never have a place where they have the opportunity to be introduced to the game.
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My grandson is a natural.
Picked this game up fast. Had a decent stroke after only a few months!! Cuts like scissors. Lol. Low over the shot came naturally. Only problem is, he thinks the game is too easy. I hate him. Took him outta the will. 🤣
He loves disc golf and is well on his way to national acclaim.
I'm hoping he'll keep coming back every so often and playing with my blind ass for old times' sake.😂
 
This is an easy question for me, Dennis hatch. His father had him on the road and they came into a pool room where I was and his father Greg made a game with me giving Dennis the seven ball. Dennis was probably about 13. So I gave him the seven but not for very long and I adjusted to the eight. With the 8 it was a fairly even game.

I got to tell you, when they left my wife and I were talking she was laughing at me she said I'm not sure you could beat this kid even. Within a year's time Dennis could give me the seven. Mind you I could play. I was running a hundred balls everyday and shot jam up 9 ball. Dennis was just a phenomenon.
 
In what I believe was January 2015, a completely unknown 14-year old player drew Alex Pagulayan in the Derby City 9ball. Alex was in his prime and was, without question, one of the world's top 5 players, and he would win the Derby city Master of the Table days later.

I was among the few watching from the beginning, but with near perfect play, this unknown ran out to a lead and had Alex on the ropes. His fine play was to continue, and he got ahead 7-4 in the race to nine. By this point, dozens were sweating this match, which was played on an outer table, Pagulayan caught the kid for the double hill win, but not because the kid handed it to him. I was shocked at the level of play I had seen from this kid, and knew he was one to watch.

The kid is hardly an unknown today. He is Fedor Gorst.
 
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middleofnowhere said:
This is an easy question for me, Dennis hatch. His father had him on the road and they came into a pool room where I was and his father Greg made a game with me giving Dennis the seven ball. Dennis was probably about 13. So I gave him the seven but not for very long and I adjusted to the eight. With the 8 it was a fairly even game.

I got to tell you, when they left my wife and I were talking she was laughing at me she said I'm not sure you could beat this kid even. Within a year's time Dennis could give me the seven. Mind you I could play. I was running a hundred balls everyday and shot jam up 9 ball. Dennis was just a phenomenon.
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At 15 or 16, Dennis was getting wins off the best players in the World. He played so well and so effortlessly, I think he lost that drive to keep improving.
 
sjm said:
In what I believe was January 2015, a completely unknown 14-year old player drew Alex Pagulayan in the Derby City 9ball. Alex was in his prime and was, without question, one of the world's top 5 players, and he would win the Derby city Master of the Table a few days later.

I was among the few watching from the beginning, but with near perfect play, this unknown ran out to a lead and had Alex on the ropes. His fine play was to continue, and he got ahead 7-4 in the race to nine. By this point, dozens were sweating this match, which was played on an outer table, Pagulayan caught the kid for the double hill win, but not because the kid handed it to him. I was shocked at the level of play I had seen from this kid, and knew he was one to watch.

The kid is hardly an unknown today. He is Fedor Gorst.
Click to expand...
I knew Alex right around the time he turned into a B player. The weird thing about Alex is he kept getting about 50% better every few months. He went from a B player to beating all the best shortstops in about a year. I learned this the hard way by betting against him a few times when he was an up-and-comer. He can still play, but he's not a shadow of his former self now.
 
ChrisinNC said:
We currently have a high school young man who comes in and plays with his buddies, all of whom are likely athletic high school football/basketball/baseball players. They are all bangers except for him. I’ve watched him and this kid has got it including near perfect natural alignment and mechanics.

I’ve spoken with him privately to tell him that he has a rare natural talent for the game and has what it takes to get really good really fast if he has the desire and commitment to pursue it, but that it won’t ever happen if he chooses to just bang balls around with his buddies.

We’ve yet to see whether he decides to take the next step to come in by himself to practice, play with better players and start playing in our weekly handicap tournaments.

I can’t help but wonder how many other young men or women who have that kind of natural gift/talent for the game, but will never be discovered or realized because they likely will never have a place where they have the opportunity to be introduced to the game.
Click to expand...
In college I played with a lot of friends and acquaintances. Pool was my friend group's thing for a few years, so naturally a lot of friends of friends ended up at the pool room with us. That showed me there's a massive variation in "default skill level." Granted, some people grew up playing in their basements or whatever, but the gamut of beginners runs from "can't shoot a single ball without miscuing" to "can slow roll open shots in from almost anywhere on a 9' Diamond."

It's amazing how some people just naturally stand correctly and have almost perfect tip accuracy from the get-go whereas with others, literally everything is wrong mechanically. Massive chicken wing arm position, tip accuracy is nonexistent, cue is elevated 45 degrees, grip is too tight and too far back or forward, etc.

I've always thought that being too good at pool right away can actually be a detriment because it seems like a simple, silly game to those lucky few. I mean, it kind of is no matter how you slice it, but when you're naturally the best player out of your friend group by a wide margin, where's the motivation to get better? Especially when no one around you gives the game any respect or consideration beyond being a timewaster in someone's basement or at the bar.
 
fjk said:
I knew Alex right around the time he turned into a B player. The weird thing about Alex is he kept getting about 50% better every few months. He went from a B player to beating all the best shortstops in about a year. I learned this the hard way by betting against him a few times when he was an up-and-comer. He can still play, but he's not a shadow of his former self now.
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Sounds like you met him in about 1994. I met him in May 1996 at the BCA Open. He was 17 but looked 14. He wasn't quite ready to do business with the very best but was showing solid pro form.

The BCA Hall of Famer remains a dangerous opponent and can win the tactical exchanges as well as any player in the world. He can't often execute at his level of old, but when he has it going, he still has an excellent chance to beat any player in the world in a race to eleven.
 
middleofnowhere said:
This is an easy question for me, Dennis hatch. His father had him on the road and they came into a pool room where I was and his father Greg made a game with me giving Dennis the seven ball. Dennis was probably about 13. So I gave him the seven but not for very long and I adjusted to the eight. With the 8 it was a fairly even game.

I got to tell you, when they left my wife and I were talking she was laughing at me she said I'm not sure you could beat this kid even. Within a year's time Dennis could give me the seven. Mind you I could play. I was running a hundred balls everyday and shot jam up 9 ball. Dennis was just a phenomenon.
Click to expand...
To my recollection, Dennis ran 300+ balls at straight pool by the age of 16.
 
mikemosconi said:
This is a much more rare occurrence today than - say in the early, mid 1960s. First off, you have so few pool rooms open where a casual player can meet with friends and get an intro to the game on 9 foot tables. This was usually where that passion that most on here feel for the game did ignite and turn into a burning desire to return to the rooms over and over again and progress to a higher proficiency level.

Secondly, I'm sorry, but the novice player and his buddies need to pocket a decent amount of balls to get that feeling of " joy" from the game- GCs from years ago at 4 7/8 allowed the game to be a more instant source of fun for the novice players ( actually pocketing balls!). -- you are NOT getting that with 4 1/2 deeper shelf pocketed, super fast table set ups. The novice will have no control over a CB flying around the table and not enough balls going in the hole to allow the game to appear reasonably controllable or reasonably fun to play.

Third, we don't have a very good pool school set up around the U.S. to train youth on the game from an early age so that they have the true fundamentals required to even begin to master the demanding equipment in place today at higher levels of the game.

Fourth, instant gratification rules most your people's minds today- ( see social media, internet) - getting good at pool was always far from instant; and now even further when you have tougher tables that demand even more excellence for even moderate initial success.

Five, big, big money in college and pro sports have spurned youth specialization in sports from a very early age- eliminating participation time in any " fringe" type activities such as pool for youngsters---- money in pool is still very, very much on the low, low rung of the sports $$$ ladder. Years ago there were boys clubs in every decent sized city in America and every one of them had pool tables, many had regional and even some led to national competition for boys age 9 to 14. Thousands upon thousands of boys played daily, weekly in these clubs, many continued to play the game for life- some became top talents nationally.

I will add one more important factor here in the U.S. many of your great players were initiated into the game in rooms owned by their fathers or relatives - think Mizerak, Mosconi, Hoppe, Margo, Zuglan, Balukas, Butera, Balsis, Fusco, etc. etc. - not many room owners left today.
Click to expand...
After reading this, i want to quit
 
My buddy had all the talent in the world but didn't/doesn't care about pool. He has it all. Perfect 90 degree pendulum stroke, zero head movement/body movement of any kind, rapid fire pace, and can spin the ball a country mile. He just has a million other hobbies he'd rather do.
 
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