Which Way Do You Play This Shot?

Haven't read any of the thread beyond you post, so forgive the repeated suggestion.

Only 3 variables should be considered when playing position.
  • How do I get to the next ball
  • What angle do I need on that ball to continue a simple pattern
  • Is there an option to avoid mistakes
Now your example is a great one for the typical mistake I see strong players make. That's right, not weak, but strong.

So if we run down my check list we get to the obvious point. Step 1: You have apparently 4 options to get to the 3.
  1. Slow roll and come off the short rail. Long shot on the 3 through the gap between 5/6.
  2. Stronger shot off only the short rail and run the CB up passed the 5
  3. Follow w/ inside english, (as mapped). Running the CB through the gap between 5/6
  4. Draw w/ outside english, (as mapped). Bringing the CB to the long rail and out to some degree.
Ok, so next on the check list. Which of my list of options provides the best opportunity to get on the 3 with a good angle to continue my pattern.
  1. This provides me a full table length shot on the 3. It will likely be very straight and will require a stop shot for a simple shot on the 5. There's options of slow rolling or timing a kill shot to allow a little roll through after a stronger stroke. Definitely no value in pumping it to generate a ton of draw.
  2. The end result here is a cut shot that will provide a back and forth shape play on the 5. Which is simple enough. The pace to which you play the 2 is critical though as you can easily over run the 3 and be dead in the water.
  3. A very natural path for CB. A stronger player should be fairly dialed in which such a play. Provides a good sized landing zone. Depending how far you roll will result in anything from a stop shot to another follow shot to pot the 5 in the respective corners.
  4. Although not a natural path. A draw shot w/ outside english is skill #1 every player learns, so this should be extremely reliable. Once you clear the 6 from the perspective of the short rail. You'll have a massive landing zone resulting in shape that will run the gambit of potential choices to get on the 5. The difficulty of the 5 will be directly proportional to how hard and spin the CB.
So, to the last check. "Is there an option to avoid mistakes". Here you basically rank the options "risk vs reward" You consider what it's going to take to get to your desired spot on the next ball, (difficulty of producing the shot as desired) combined with potential pitfalls if you don't hit it right vs what you actually need to continue the pattern. Now earlier I did declare the goal a "simple pattern". However there's always situations that call for more added difficulty so the results are more reliable. Back to our options...
  1. Smallest landing zone. Action on the CB is as basic as it can be. Some find it difficult to extremely slow roll. However there's really no consideration beyond minimal pace. That said, the resulting shot on the 3 is as difficult as it gets. It will require a strong second shot to merely pot the 3. Shape on the 5 is more about whatever you end up with as long as you make the 3.
  2. The 5 is a massive blocker following this route. Having a strong handle on the the pace of the table it paramount. Extremely easy to either block yourself with the 5 or overrun the shape in varying degrees of unnecessary difficulty to a complete no go.
  3. Once again, this all boils down to pace and rail condition. This can be anything from a strong stroke to nearly a slow roll on a diamond pinball machine. Should consider that this option is the only one that brings a possible sewer into play. 80% of this shot has the CB behind obstructions, and contains the potential for an extremely difficult shot on the 3 if you manage to reach the second long rail.
  4. Largest landing zone by a long shot. 10-15% of this shot is behind obstruction. Once you clear the 6, you will have a shot. Only option 1 makes getting a clean look on the 3 easier. Far too many resulting shape options to comment on, but it does encompass all angles you could produce with the other 3 options. Most forgiving regarding pace.
So what do I do...?

Well, I'm a very keen follow inside player. I base the majority of my pattern play on that type of shot. I find it very natural and comfortable. So with that said, I'm taking option 4. Yep, option #4. Its the best play of the bunch. Gives you the most breathing room. Is second only to option 1 for worrying about obstructions, but will result in a far better shot on the 3.

Apologies for the wordy reply. Morning coffee ;)
Beautiful analysis, and I concur.

Got to my diamond pin ball machine, and the inside 2-railer Option 3 was an absolute hanger. But I know my table. The spin off the two rails had my almost bunting the balls.

The outside shot, I had some speed control issue but never didn’t have a shot. And the shot is always going to be a back cut power shot or softer follow depending if the 5-bal passed the 6-ball. That might be too much to ask for for some players.

If I was on a cold (to me) table, Option 4 is my first choice, which also means on my table it’s my first choice. I don’t go around thinking I’ll shoot this shot different from table to table since Option 4 is good on any table.

If the cueball were higher, the one rail up the table might become the obvious choice. If the cueball were a couple hairs lower, maybe that changes Option 3 vs Option 4.

And yes, I took the time to set it all up a video. Forgot to hit RECORD with all my narrative. Didn’t want to put myself through that brain fart old man syndrome again. Many of you have seen me shoot.
 
Because for some reason you’re playing to 3rd rail. Take a look at the OP’s diagram again. He’s playing a follow inside 2-railer for position to the same pocket (lower left as viewed from above the table), same as the draw 2-railer with outside. Both playing to the obvious same pocket. I think because you mirrored the layout, you confused yourself as to which pocket to play position for.
Well I didn't mirror the layout, my camera does that. There's Shirley a way to flip flop it but Shirley ain't here. 😉
I understand how confusing that can be because now I am confused. I am however at my table now. So I.can endeavor to shoot it if you describe it. As in 10 o'clock or let's see a draw with outside would be 4 o'clock the way its laying. And my goal is to...?
I will go set the table. 😉
 
Well I didn't mirror the layout, my camera does that. There's Shirley a way to flip flop it but Shirley ain't here. 😉
I understand how confusing that can be because now I am confused. I am however at my table now. So I.can endeavor to shoot it if you describe it. As in 10 o'clock or let's see a draw with outside would be 4 o'clock the way its laying. And my goal is to...?
I will go set the table. 😉
Your goal is to play easy position on the 3-ball to the same lower left pocket as viewed and diagrammed in the original post. Whether you’re drawing at 4 o’clock or following at 10 o’clock, you’re still playing for the same pocket.
 
20241104_160525.jpg

Here's the layout. My first attempt to draw to the rail where my cue lays yielded a duplicate of my video effort.
Here is my first effort
20241104_161138.jpg
At the Moe Norman alley, somehow my picture is flopped if I did it I don't know how. I will take it as The Pool Gawds pulling my chain... .what was that movie?😉 maybe 🤷‍♂️ Anyway my Mo shot works nicely with centerball on the 3 to stop for the 5. Just a little angle to drift over for the same angle on the 5 to get to the 6 ball which gets the same small angle for 6 to 7 and voila same thing on the 7 gets straight on the 9. Imagination out for sure. Gramps caint do it in practice here tonight but it's there for the able.
 
Anyway my next attempt at the force follow. Well I brought it in hot and hit the 3 off the third rail. Ending up just under a foot apart between 30 and 45 degrees shot on the 3 with 2 rails out of the corner the 3 was near playing to the opposite corner, yields this on the 5.
20241104_163941.jpg

If I can't get out from here is the thought. But in practice I don't mind. I got a little loose on the shape to the 6 since it was So simple. Put whitey in the side playing a huge zone for the 7. Doesn't speak to the difficulty just my ability. A Pay Attention Reminder. That's what practice is for.
Edit: the cue butt is in the corner whiteycame from. Coming the percentage route to the 5 ball shape funnel.
 
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Your goal is to play easy position on the 3-ball to the same lower left pocket as viewed and diagrammed in the original post. Whether you’re drawing at 4 o’clock or following at 10 o’clock, you’re still playing for the same pocket.
Well that's what I was doing in the video. 🤷‍♂️ going across the shape funnel is not ideal. I look for a final leg that goes at the next object ball. Speed is still important but a little more forgiving.
 
I remember a semi insult regarding practice kicking because I couldn't play shape. Just because I kick like a Mule doesn't mean it's my only "super power".

Can't means Won't. 🤷‍♂️
The reason I can't see a scenario where someone calls a simple low and outside shot through a huge window as a weakness while having a perfect stun through a 6inch (at best) window as a strength is because that would make zero sense.

You seem to practice a lot so I will share with u a common philosphy for practice that applies to pool development as well as it does to sinking boats: plug the biggest holes first.

If, by chance, u aren't just stubbornly digging your heels in on a lost position, and are in fact a player who is so weak at the very common low and outside shot that u avoid it in favor of a shot with 1/10th the margin for error, then u should be very greatful for this thread exposing a giant gaping hole in ur game that needs to be addressed in practice. So address it. Develop this basic skill needed for good pool and I'm sure in about as much table time as it took you to produce all the posts you've contributed to this thread, you will have your draw with outside shot up to a level that will massively outperform your 'super power' stun with perfect speed on this layout.

Have fun levelling up. Low with outside makes a lot of layouts easier. It's a super basic shot... which is why I think ur just stubbornly digging in and it's already the best option for you, as it is for every poster in this thread who bothered to sticker it up.
 
Wobbly is reminding me of the youngster that wanted to coach me and tell me what I should have done. I got his allowance. 🤷‍♂️
 
My picture in post 205 has the butt of the cue at lower left. I am assuming it's upper left. Upper left is the pocket I was playing 4.
Looks like you are targeting the correct pocket now. I would rather that you use the OP’s layout for the reference of which pocket (the lower left pocket).
 
Then there was the youngster at my son's home at the pool table interrupted me twice. It was a birthday party and well....I had given my brief credit that I was a Master. So I explained to him, "You keep interrupting to tell me what You know....and what you know Ain't Shit!" All the girls giggled and he was large and used to being a bully. Not with me.
 
There is a time and place for different choices. There's another movie quote that I can't remember who to attribute. "A man's gotta know his limitations. " Pretty sure it was Dirty Harry. Pretty sure.....
I don't want to pile on here. You put yourself out there with a video, and it takes courage to do so. The only thing I will criticise is the rather disingenous idea that scratching on the draw shot is a big risk here. You have to mishit the shot so badly for that to happen, that it's actually difficult to do, even if you try.

Regarding the saying, I think it is reasonable to take risk into account, but also the full layout of the table. A different situation may call for your solution, but in this particular case, I feel taking a risk of getting snookered or too thin is not worth it given that it's a Mickey Mouse layout after this shot. Taking into account that one is not Ronnie O'Sullivan and realizing that there is some spread in the power and direction of ones stroke, should be filed under knowing ones limitations. The margin of error between the draw and the stun cannot be reasonably compared. Practising small window position is never a bad idea. When it comes to do-or-die runouts out in the wild, shooting those shots should be reserved for the times when they are needed.
 
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Looks like you are targeting the correct pocket now. I would rather that you use the OP’s layout for the reference of which pocket (the lower left pocket).
That's 3 pages back 😉 I claim old timers
So yeah going for that pocket has me going across the line of aim is what I don't like. Not that I haven't done it. Vince Frain RIP gave me a huge compliment when I went 3 rails through traffic crossing the line to stop on the dime for the 8 ball. Vince said, "I didn't know you shot that good." Vince was my expert odds maker from the 211 in Seattle. So yeah I made my little pool playing money keeping it that way.
 
Well that's what I was doing in the video. 🤷‍♂️ going across the shape funnel is not ideal. I look for a final leg that goes at the next object ball. Speed is still important but a little more forgiving.
I literally have no idea what you’re talking about. You say that’s what you were doing, then you talk about crossing the funnel. The inside follow 2-railer is exactly not crossing the funnel but going right down the funnel.

Here is is your video. Your 3rd shot is the inside 2-rail follow shot, and for some bizarre reason you shot it and hit 3rd rail. You even say the side pocket is in play, which is why you don’t like the shot. Why are you even thinking about hitting the 3rd rail??? What pocket do you think you’re playing for??? Because your video is mirrored, your target is suppose to be the upper right pocket for your video that you posted. It looked like you were playing for the upper left (your video is mirrored).

 
Wow just wow. How long have you been playing pool? Do you have credentials?
You come off as disrespectful. If that's indeed your intention....I can only imagine ....Why? You wanna play some?
I genuinely meant have fun levelling up. It is fun. No disrespect intended. But its prettu obv that u either
A) are just messin around on a forum digging in
Or
B) grossly mismanaged ur practice time and got better than everyone on a difficult shot while remaining weak on an easy one.

Ima go with A.
 
Practising small window position is never a bad idea. When it comes to do-or-die runouts out in the wild, shooting those shots should be reserved for the times when it is needed.
I thought I had expressed that but yeah I have taken this challenge as a chance to work on detected weakness.
Mathematics was always a strength. Knowledge of my percentages at various angles and distances is all tossed in. Giving all the voices in my head a chance to speak, kinda like Multiplicity.
 
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