Lots of possibilities. Perhaps my skills level on that shot are lacking.
Small variations are possible given my wet willy ball markers to fade. Slight changes in placement could be significant. Most likely answer I chooses skills level. 
Which Way Do You Play This Shot?
- Thread starter DrCue'sProtege
- Start date
Small variations are possible given my wet willy ball markers to fade. Slight changes in placement could be significant. Most likely answer I chooses skills level.
Then there's the mental. Perhaps my subconscious wants My Path to be the right path. Well the up side is I have identified a weakness to work on. But for the money honey, I like the KISS program. The fewest variables and or moving parts. Perhaps my morning fitness program with emphasis on speed control leverages my shot choices. Oh well.
Well the up side is I have identified a weakness to work on. But for the money honey, I like the KISS program. The fewest variables and or moving parts. Perhaps my morning fitness program with emphasis on speed control leverages my shot choices. Oh well.Well phenolic - not enough bite? Geez what about one handed?Round 2 shooting with phenolic tipped jump/break cue.
View attachment 788027
View attachment 788029
No photo needed for draw as it found the hole in the side rail.
The bite seems available as the side pocket scratch was too much spin. The cue tip must stay closer to center but spin is available. Controlling it is another trick. Notice the red path result was not effected.
Okay tomorrow morning fitness will start with one handed left vs right first shooter then phenolic. One shot each path each hand each cue....12 strokes won't take long and could be enlightening or at least entertaining.
WobblyStroke
Well-known member
So I stickered this up and tried em and flip floppin back to low right. At first I thought I'd prefer the top left on the tight and fast table I was on because I could just stroke that so gently and make the pocket big, but I ended up with hampered cueing over the 6 a couple times with that option
Low right was pretty automatic save for one I didnt hit too well and got less spin and speed, hitting the rail at the 3rd diamond and not bouncing much off it. The rest were pretty much 2.2-2.6 diamond onn the long rail and always good on the 3.
Plus, turns out that the 2 railer into the 5 off the 3 was way different than I assumed on the fast table I was playing on and my easiest route from 3 to 5 was a natural 2 railer out of the corner with a lil running english to land me on the 5 in the side.
The stun angle worked amazingly the first 2 tries but then I overdrew andrubbed the 9 once and then compensated by getting behind the 5 on the next one so I dumped that option as the margin for error was just too small.
Speed control would have to be too precise for the centerball path between the 5 and 7. I got thin on the first one and quit it.
It goes in the side for not enough action to the side cushion. Nobody had a problem with that shot.
Haven't read any of the thread beyond you post, so forgive the repeated suggestion.
Only 3 variables should be considered when playing position.
- How do I get to the next ball
- What angle do I need on that ball to continue a simple pattern
- Is there an option to avoid mistakes
So if we run down my check list we get to the obvious point. Step 1: You have apparently 4 options to get to the 3.
- Slow roll and come off the short rail. Long shot on the 3 through the gap between 5/6.
- Stronger shot off only the short rail and run the CB up passed the 5
- Follow w/ inside english, (as mapped). Running the CB through the gap between 5/6
- Draw w/ outside english, (as mapped). Bringing the CB to the long rail and out to some degree.
- This provides me a full table length shot on the 3. It will likely be very straight and will require a stop shot for a simple shot on the 5. There's options of slow rolling or timing a kill shot to allow a little roll through after a stronger stroke. Definitely no value in pumping it to generate a ton of draw.
- The end result here is a cut shot that will provide a back and forth shape play on the 5. Which is simple enough. The pace to which you play the 2 is critical though as you can easily over run the 3 and be dead in the water.
- A very natural path for CB. A stronger player should be fairly dialed in which such a play. Provides a good sized landing zone. Depending how far you roll will result in anything from a stop shot to another follow shot to pot the 5 in the respective corners.
- Although not a natural path. A draw shot w/ outside english is skill #1 every player learns, so this should be extremely reliable. Once you clear the 6 from the perspective of the short rail. You'll have a massive landing zone resulting in shape that will run the gambit of potential choices to get on the 5. The difficulty of the 5 will be directly proportional to how hard and spin the CB.
- Smallest landing zone. Action on the CB is as basic as it can be. Some find it difficult to extremely slow roll. However there's really no consideration beyond minimal pace. That said, the resulting shot on the 3 is as difficult as it gets. It will require a strong second shot to merely pot the 3. Shape on the 5 is more about whatever you end up with as long as you make the 3.
- The 5 is a massive blocker following this route. Having a strong handle on the the pace of the table it paramount. Extremely easy to either block yourself with the 5 or overrun the shape in varying degrees of unnecessary difficulty to a complete no go.
- Once again, this all boils down to pace and rail condition. This can be anything from a strong stroke to nearly a slow roll on a diamond pinball machine. Should consider that this option is the only one that brings a possible sewer into play. 80% of this shot has the CB behind obstructions, and contains the potential for an extremely difficult shot on the 3 if you manage to reach the second long rail.
- Largest landing zone by a long shot. 10-15% of this shot is behind obstruction. Once you clear the 6, you will have a shot. Only option 1 makes getting a clean look on the 3 easier. Far too many resulting shape options to comment on, but it does encompass all angles you could produce with the other 3 options. Most forgiving regarding pace.
Well, I'm a very keen follow inside player. I base the majority of my pattern play on that type of shot. I find it very natural and comfortable. So with that said, I'm taking option 4. Yep, option #4. Its the best play of the bunch. Gives you the most breathing room. Is second only to option 1 for worrying about obstructions, but will result in a far better shot on the 3.
Apologies for the wordy reply. Morning coffee
somehow i missed this post and this screenshotAlso here is a picture standing at the table of the 1 rail route, with the stick on the tangent line. You'd need the CB direction to be within 2 ball widths to get field goal position between the 5 and 9. It's really a bad shot. Sorry, not sorry
View attachment 787960
based on how you set up the shot
this path for the cue ball is definitely not one i would choose
i had the the inside edges of the 9 and 5 alittle more apart giving a more comfortable path
thanks for the pic and the video
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I'm very disappointed you didn't mention personal preference. You sir, are a threat to mediocrity.Haven't read any of the thread beyond you post, so forgive the repeated suggestion.
Only 3 variables should be considered when playing position.
Now your example is a great one for the typical mistake I see strong players make. That's right, not weak, but strong.
- How do I get to the next ball
- What angle do I need on that ball to continue a simple pattern
- Is there an option to avoid mistakes
So if we run down my check list we get to the obvious point. Step 1: You have apparently 4 options to get to the 3.
Ok, so next on the check list. Which of my list of options provides the best opportunity to get on the 3 with a good angle to continue my pattern.
- Slow roll and come off the short rail. Long shot on the 3 through the gap between 5/6.
- Stronger shot off only the short rail and run the CB up passed the 5
- Follow w/ inside english, (as mapped). Running the CB through the gap between 5/6
- Draw w/ outside english, (as mapped). Bringing the CB to the long rail and out to some degree.
So, to the last check. "Is there an option to avoid mistakes". Here you basically rank the options "risk vs reward" You consider what it's going to take to get to your desired spot on the next ball, (difficulty of producing the shot as desired) combined with potential pitfalls if you don't hit it right vs what you actually need to continue the pattern. Now earlier I did declare the goal a "simple pattern". However there's always situations that call for more added difficulty so the results are more reliable. Back to our options...
- This provides me a full table length shot on the 3. It will likely be very straight and will require a stop shot for a simple shot on the 5. There's options of slow rolling or timing a kill shot to allow a little roll through after a stronger stroke. Definitely no value in pumping it to generate a ton of draw.
- The end result here is a cut shot that will provide a back and forth shape play on the 5. Which is simple enough. The pace to which you play the 2 is critical though as you can easily over run the 3 and be dead in the water.
- A very natural path for CB. A stronger player should be fairly dialed in which such a play. Provides a good sized landing zone. Depending how far you roll will result in anything from a stop shot to another follow shot to pot the 5 in the respective corners.
- Although not a natural path. A draw shot w/ outside english is skill #1 every player learns, so this should be extremely reliable. Once you clear the 6 from the perspective of the short rail. You'll have a massive landing zone resulting in shape that will run the gambit of potential choices to get on the 5. The difficulty of the 5 will be directly proportional to how hard and spin the CB.
So what do I do...?
- Smallest landing zone. Action on the CB is as basic as it can be. Some find it difficult to extremely slow roll. However there's really no consideration beyond minimal pace. That said, the resulting shot on the 3 is as difficult as it gets. It will require a strong second shot to merely pot the 3. Shape on the 5 is more about whatever you end up with as long as you make the 3.
- The 5 is a massive blocker following this route. Having a strong handle on the the pace of the table it paramount. Extremely easy to either block yourself with the 5 or overrun the shape in varying degrees of unnecessary difficulty to a complete no go.
- Once again, this all boils down to pace and rail condition. This can be anything from a strong stroke to nearly a slow roll on a diamond pinball machine. Should consider that this option is the only one that brings a possible sewer into play. 80% of this shot has the CB behind obstructions, and contains the potential for an extremely difficult shot on the 3 if you manage to reach the second long rail.
- Largest landing zone by a long shot. 10-15% of this shot is behind obstruction. Once you clear the 6, you will have a shot. Only option 1 makes getting a clean look on the 3 easier. Far too many resulting shape options to comment on, but it does encompass all angles you could produce with the other 3 options. Most forgiving regarding pace.
Well, I'm a very keen follow inside player. I base the majority of my pattern play on that type of shot. I find it very natural and comfortable. So with that said, I'm taking option 4. Yep, option #4. Its the best play of the bunch. Gives you the most breathing room. Is second only to option 1 for worrying about obstructions, but will result in a far better shot on the 3.
Apologies for the wordy reply. Morning coffee
Good morning Sunday:
Has me grampa ing on! Just shot the video and it came out as well as I could expect.
Disclaimer; I had just medicated but it is all genuine and no feelings were damaged. I think. Headscratch.
1 attempt for all the money. Give the 50 to your favorite kids chair it T.
Anyway I will rest your honor. Ooops forgot the slide....Ramblin Rose is a favorite....
Video is uploading still. So now to take on the one handed challenge. That's probably better told in my
practice thread.
Left vs Right
One handed
2 different cues one phenolic
3 shots as demonstrated in the upcoming Block Buster homemade video. delusions of grand manure ????
Has me grampa ing on! Just shot the video and it came out as well as I could expect.
Disclaimer; I had just medicated but it is all genuine and no feelings were damaged. I think. Headscratch.
1 attempt for all the money. Give the 50 to your favorite kids chair it T.
Anyway I will rest your honor. Ooops forgot the slide....Ramblin Rose is a favorite....
Video is uploading still. So now to take on the one handed challenge. That's probably better told in my
practice thread.Left vs Right
One handed
2 different cues one phenolic
3 shots as demonstrated in the upcoming Block Buster homemade video.
delusions of grand manure ????
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Well it's landed. Didn't realize the groaning was so loud..oh well.
I was only providing a reason to support those who liked that shot better. I had just finished practicing that very shot
a few days earlier (for fun) for an hour or so... and had found it to be quite repeatable in my results as to hitting spots.
Personally, I would play the draw 2 rails and out all day, every time as that is my personal comfort for the route and layout
as shown. I'm just a B player.... old, shaky and blind.... so I almost always have plenty of mistakes.
td
Well you are consistent! All 3 of your shots were equally bad. Ha ha. I’d say your best chance of continuing the run with the 3 recorded shots was the low outside. It’s thin, but you’re close. The one rail shot you’re straight in and on the rail and a mile away. You’ll miss the 3 on that probably 65% of the time. Thanks for the video.
I would prefer Common or unimpressive.
On my ratings scale to be bad would require hooked or scratched. Less than optimal is the grade just above bad.
I would expect different preferences as we all have personal strengths and or weaknesses. My shape on the first stroke is not ball in hand, it is however to my liking. I have a shot that you estimate I will miss 65 percent. If that were indeed the case my miss percentage on the other 2 leaves would still be higher.
The good part of my first leave is the shape from 3 to 5 can be attained with minimal cueball movement. The length and proximity to the rail don't trouble me, well not 65 percent worth.
My inability to get better shape going the other 2 routes speaks only to My abilities and preferences.
The stretching at the beginning is because the video is of my first 3 strokes of the day.
The up side of this is I am noticing a little difference in my form from my mental picture. I better go examine that a little more.
Here you go one handed challenge.
Watching this right now. Maybe some spin on the first shot?
It feels like you’re shooting some different shot. I cant imagine even coming close to scratching on any of the 3 (or 4) patterns that we’ve been talking about. There is no scratch on the draw shot, and you’d really have to try to scratch on the 2-rail inside follow.Round 2 shooting with phenolic tipped jump/break cue.
View attachment 788027
View attachment 788029
No photo needed for draw as it found the hole in the side rail.
This will be slightly off point but:Then there's the mental. Perhaps my subconscious wants My Path to be the right path.
But the “fewest moving parts” principle is never the best direction in almost every athletic or physical endeavor. It never has been. It’s only a feel-good saying in pool, yet no top player subscribed to it. The better athletes are always the ones who can manage and ultimately master multiple moving parts. For beginners, sure we stress less variables or else they might never take the next step. But eventually, players got to increase their horizon in order to improve.
Can't means Won't. Can't remember where I learned that. :headscratch:
WobblyStroke
Well-known member
Excellent point!
Reminds me of a time when I watched a competitive tennis player friend of mine recapping a lesson's key learning points focused on stabilizing the wrist in a leveraged position. After his lesson, I asked him why he told the group something completely different about the wrist action (or lack there of in their case) than he taught me and he simply replied, "They're not ready for that." The beginners def had to keep it simple and limit moving parts as that would get them way better results than trying to swing free and achieve the correct impact position dynamically. But eventually, if they wanted to attain a higher level than low-intermediate, they would have to allow for more moving parts to work in unison.
Side spin in pool is very similar imo. Way better for beginners to stay away and build a center-axis foundation for their game. But to get decent at this game, one needs to be able to use spin effectively in order to have the highest percentage shots available to them. Then, at the very top of cue sports, you have some pros who take on a philosophy of nearly never trying to hit center ball, like Ronnie, Earl, and Seigel, to name a few.
For the beginner, spin makes things harder, for the expert, it makes things easier.
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