Rules Question

[DynoDan]

In my view any way you want to use your cue stick and arms/hands/eyes to plan and align shots should be perfectly OK.

A fairly common kicking system requires you to shoot towards a point that is the mirror image of the object ball reflected through the cushion. There are lots of YouTube examples of players measuring out the right distance to go on the other side of the cushion with either their hand or the cue stick. I have never seen a foul called for such a thing.

I also think that if you have the cue ball in hand you should be able to place it wherever you please for any purpose you have.

Just like its legal to lay your cue on the table to sight a bank shot angle, as long as you don’t let go of it, the same should likely apply to using a ‘ball-in-hand’ cue ball to measure with. But if you do, you probably shouldn’t be allowed to let go of it unless you shoot it from that location. The same would also apply to using the triangle to determine a break ball (if you are going to be at all allowed to misuse equipment to measure). At least hanging on to it gives you a pass to violate the spirit of the rule.

 

[fastone371]

Determining the path of the ball <IS> checking clearances.

I hate opening this can of worms but how is determining the path of the ball checking clearances? I hope it doesn't mean something like checking to see if the cue ball will clear a pocket so you don't scratch, that would basically be the same as saying that we cant look at the table and balls before shooting.

 

[Bob Jewett]

Another technique you see a lot of players doing at 14.1 is putting their cue stick up by the break ball to see where the cue ball will land on the rack. (cue stick parallel or perpendicular to the shot to judge the kiss path) I suppose someone might call a foul for that, too.

 

[straightline]

I hate opening this can of worms but how is determining the path of the ball checking clearances? I hope it doesn't mean something like checking to see if the cue ball will clear a pocket so you don't scratch, that would basically be the same as saying that we cant look at the table and balls before shooting.

Obviously, if you use the peace sign, it's to make sure the ball gets to where you need it. That might be checking your own tolerances but ssshh or they'll start calling that a foul too. Anyway, more often than not, there will be balls in the way - not just potential pocket ambushes. Those are the tolerances - and they are tolerances, that need to be addressed to play position.

 

[RakRunr]

Just like its legal to lay your cue on the table to sight a bank shot angle, as long as you don’t let go of it, the same should likely apply to using a ‘ball-in-hand’ cue ball to measure with. But if you do, you probably shouldn’t be allowed to let go of it unless you shoot it from that location. The same would also apply to using the triangle to determine a break ball (if you are going to be at all allowed to misuse equipment to measure). At least hanging on to it gives you a pass to violate the spirit of the rule.

CSI rules permit you to let go of the cue as well. Rule 1-3-f:

This same rule also shows that you can use your cue and hands to measure angles and distances - interesting that it specifies for bank and kick shots, which could be construed as saying it is not legal for other types of shots.

 

[Bob Jewett]

CSI rules permit you to let go of the cue as well. Rule 1-3-f:
View attachment 790086

This same rule also shows that you can use your cue and hands to measure angles and distances - interesting that it specifies for bank and kick shots, which could be construed as saying it is not legal for other types of shots.

The first sentence seems to allow it generally for using the cue stick. It does seem that you can only add your hands when planning kicks and banks. I doubt they intended that restriction for simple shots.

 

[RakRunr]

The first sentence seems to allow it generally for using the cue stick. It does seem that you can only add your hands when planning kicks and banks. I doubt they intended that restriction for simple shots.

Agreed - I'm sure it was not intended as a limitation, just pointing out that the wording could be misconstrued. In addition to measuring kicks and banks, I use my cue frequently to help envision the tangent line and I can't imagine it ever being considered a foul.

 

[Bob Jewett]

... I can't imagine it ever being considered a foul.

I was playing in a pro event and my opponent noticed the small black line I marked by my tip so I could have the cue stick in the same rotation all the time. He said it was an aiming device and went over to the TD to have my stick banned. I think he might call a device foul on you for doing tangents. Just when you think you've seen everything, your opponent will surprise you.

 

[gregcantrall]

Just when you think you've seen everything, your opponent will surprise you.

Aiming is next. But But, he's Aiming......make him stop.

 

[straightline]

CSI rules permit you to let go of the cue as well. Rule 1-3-f:
View attachment 790086

This same rule also shows that you can use your cue and hands to measure angles and distances - interesting that it specifies for bank and kick shots, which could be construed as saying it is not legal for other types of shots.

I always thought this was to prevent leaving the cue on a difficult to reach shot and then walking over to the side and shooting it pre aligned but blind. CSI allows that?

 

[RakRunr]

I always thought this was to prevent leaving the cue on a difficult to reach shot and then walking over to the side and shooting it pre aligned but blind. CSI allows that?

A legal stroke requires a forward motion (no lifting or brushing). There is no requirement to aim, see down the line of the shot, or have your body in a certain position. So based on what you are describing, yes that would be legal.

Definition of a Legal Stroke:

General Rules:

 

[straightline]

A legal stroke requires a forward motion (no lifting or brushing). There is no requirement to aim, see down the line of the shot, or have your body in a certain position. So based on what you are describing, yes that would be legal.

Definition of a Legal Stroke:
View attachment 790263
General Rules:
View attachment 790262

Cool.

 

[garczar]

A legal stroke requires a forward motion (no lifting or brushing). There is no requirement to aim, see down the line of the shot, or have your body in a certain position. So based on what you are describing, yes that would be legal.

Definition of a Legal Stroke:
View attachment 790263
General Rules:
View attachment 790262

I've seen a few people try that 'lift' shit playing 1p. Foul all the way.

 

[Bob Jewett]

I've seen a few people try that 'lift' shit playing 1p. Foul all the way.

And there are (or have been) some instructors who teach the lift stuff.

The lift safety on a close ball seems to have appeared around 1996. At the time there was no rule or wording that specifically forbid it. Shortly after it appeared, the BCA made an explicit ruling that it was a foul, and I think the definition of a stroke was clarified to be a "forward" motion of the cue stick, where "forward" means along the long axis of the stick from butt to tip.

The lift safety is also a miscue, and so it's an intentional miscue which is unsportsmanlike conduct.

 

[SlateMan]

A legal stroke requires a forward motion (no lifting or brushing). There is no requirement to aim, see down the line of the shot, or have your body in a certain position. So based on what you are describing, yes that would be legal.

Definition of a Legal Stroke:
View attachment 790263
General Rules:
View attachment 790262

I like the stroke where you hold the cue and pop-the back of the stick when it's a long reach shot. I had people try to say that was a foul, even though there is clearly forward motion of the cue....

 

[Bob Jewett]

I like the stroke where you hold the cue and pop-the back of the stick when it's a long reach shot. I had people try to say that was a foul, even though there is clearly forward motion of the cue....

That shot is a favorite of Jerry Briesath to do a draw shot. He pinches under the joint with his bridge hand to get the tip up a little for draw and then rams the heel of his hand into the bumper. Seems like a fine shot to me.

Another weird technique for a safe close to a rail is to lay your stick out onto the table with the tip by the rail, pick up the shaft with your finger tips and then lightly pull the stick towards you to hit the cue ball.

 

[RakRunr]

That shot is a favorite of Jerry Briesath to do a draw shot. He pinches under the joint with his bridge hand to get the tip up a little for draw and then rams the heel of his hand into the bumper. Seems like a fine shot to me.

Another weird technique for a safe close to a rail is to lay your stick out onto the table with the tip by the rail, pick up the shaft with your finger tips and then lightly pull the stick towards you to hit the cue ball.

Personally I've never used the first one, but the second one comes in very handy. Both perfectly acceptable and legal. Another one I really like when the cue ball is very close to the object ball is the shoulder stroke: rest the cue on your shoulder, pinch the cue near the join with your fingertips, and stroke lightly downward. Very easy to avoid a foul and you can draw/stop the ball even when frozen to the rail.