Brunswick Centennial

[Jimmorrison]

Uh, yeah. Sorta, kinda, but not really. Chinese manufacturers are capable of building to any spec, including high quality, if the contracting company is willing to pay. No company specified toxic poison in jars of baby food. They just specified quantity and price, then turned a blind eye. This model has been replicated ad nauseam.

 

[rexus31]

Approx 25 years ago I was looking to install a stereo in a newly acquired boat and was at a Lowes maybe 25 miles from my house which back then was the closest one to me. I had a choice of getting a made in USA Klein too wirestripper / cutter for ~$18 or a Made in China version for about ten bucks less. I figured I might need such a tool maybe once a year, if that, and so I bought the Chinese one. Got home and right out of the package it would not strip wire and just barely cut it. That was my 1st exposure to crap quality goods from Japan. My bad decision cosy me a round trip back tothat Lowes and all of the inconvenience that comes with it. Since then I have witnessed myriad exampkes of shit quality items coming from there. After Hurrican Katrina all of the imported sheetrock that flooded the market and was widely used to rebuild much of damaged Louisiana and Mississipi only to soon-after find out the gypsum used were toxic and holes began showing up in copper pipes in these homes along with people getting sick. Even many of the residents jewelery began corroding due to the toxicity. Yikes!

Then the dog food that was killing our pets. Add the lead and melamine often found in kids toys. I replaced a car window thru Safelite and after install I actually saw waviness in the glass. It was because it was made in China.

Guys at the race and resto shop I'm affiliated with are so fed up with the poor quality fit and operation of so many parts theuy receive when the original parts are unobtainable. They oftentime have to modify the parts in order to get them to work.

Maybe 15 or so years ago the famous British Chocolate company, Cadbury, had a public relations disaster when during that years Valentine Day sales they had to issue a recall on candies mfg'd in China - it was determined the candies were tainted with an industrial compound melamine.

Shall I go on? I can, for days...

Original Brunswick tables, as you know, are lifetime quality tables. They are tried and treue, proven to hold up for decades in commercial use environments. Me personally, with China's extremely poor track record, I'm not taking any chan ces with unproven quality pool tables, or anything else, when possible.

All above is based on my experience and is my opinion.

I'm not saying there aren't bad products coming from China, I'm just saying there are good ones too. The Gold Crown IV is regarding as one of the best tables Brunswick has ever produced. It may be "Assembled in the USA" but everything is sourced from overseas, including China. This doesn't make it bad from the get go.

 

[SBC]

That's an Anniversary. Restoring the Centennial's aluminum aprons can be challenging and expensive.

The new Centennial is most likely along the same quality as a new Gold Crown. One benefit of brand new is flush, screw in pocket liners. The asking price is what gets me. If you have the skills and tools to restore an original, you might be able to restore an original for less even if you farm out the metal work. To do it properly, the clear anodize need to be removed to get to bare aluminum, any imperfections addressed, polished then clear anodized. You could also apply an automotive clear over the polished aluminum so it resists corrosion but it will not be as durable as anodizing. If I were looking for one I'd want rosewood rails and I'd update it with the later pocket casting with screw in liners which can be difficult to find. I'm not a fan of nail in pocket liners.

I had this early Centennial. Beautiful Brazilian rosewood rails.
Solid it to Ideologist who gave it a stellar refinish.

 

[maha]

china of course can make any product to specs. and any quality.

but the reason companies source to china is that they are cheaper, and willing to make compromise in quality to make the price right.
so you are way more likely to have quality issues and especially ones you don't see in china products.

save a little and take your chances. many times you wont notice the difference, especially if the product isnt in hard use.

 

[trob]

How's that computer, tablet or phone you're typing on hold up? How about your TV? Shall I go on?

Not the same thing to me but ok.
I know you love Brunswick but it doesn’t change the fact that I read installers complaining how nothing matches up when building a new one. All the retro fitting they have to do. That doesn’t seem like quality to me. I get the feeling that the conglomerate that bought Brunswick wanted the name and now are just trying to make money off of it without much use of quality. I would take your Brunswick any day before I would risk that money buying what they are making now.

can china make great quality products..sure. If they choose to. We could make cars as reliable as a honda or Toyota if we chose to. We just dont lol

 

[fastone371]

Wtf are you on about? Were the wire strippers from Japan or China? They aren't the same.

A lot of Klein tools are made overseas and have been for a long time. They are interchangeable from the ones made in the US. Sad or not.

The melamine thing was still being sold by USA and European companies that failed to do the quality control... Or they specified the melamine.

The common belief is wrong. In the end the fault of products can only be blamed on the people who design them and sell them. If the Chinese companies don't build to spec, the people who put their name on it shouldn't sell it.

A friend of a friend who was an engineer at a large US corporation was sent to China to oversee product made for his company. He said "China can make great products but when you leave and are no longer babysitting the product turned to shit, from the quality of the material to the workmanship, it all suffered"'

 

[rexus31]

Not the same thing to me but ok.
I know you love Brunswick but it doesn’t change the fact that I read installers complaining how nothing matches up when building a new one. All the retro fitting they have to do. That doesn’t seem like quality to me. I get the feeling that the conglomerate that bought Brunswick wanted the name and now are just trying to make money off of it without much use of quality. I would take your Brunswick any day before I would risk that money buying what they are making now.

The Gold Crown IV is regarding as the best Gold Crown ever made. All the parts are from overseas.

can china make great quality products..sure. If they choose to. We could make cars as reliable as a honda or Toyota if we chose to. We just dont lol

It's not "China's" decision, it's the company who decides which manufacturer to contract with to do the work.

I wish we brought manufacturing back to the US. It's one of the key reasons why we won WWII. It will likely never happen though because no one would be able to afford the products.

 

[bradsh98]

Not the same thing to me but ok.
I know you love Brunswick but it doesn’t change the fact that I read installers complaining how nothing matches up when building a new one. All the retro fitting they have to do. That doesn’t seem like quality to me. I get the feeling that the conglomerate that bought Brunswick wanted the name and now are just trying to make money off of it without much use of quality. I would take your Brunswick any day before I would risk that money buying what they are making now.

can china make great quality products..sure. If they choose to. We could make cars as reliable as a honda or Toyota if we chose to. We just dont lol

From the opinion of this installer, you are spot on.

By the way, I know that a number of table manufacturers moved operations to Vietnam, a few years ago. Of course, it was for cost savings. I'm fairly certain that Brunswick was one of them.

I have installed quite a few of the latest Brunswick tables, including the Black Wolf, the Black Wolf Pro, the Gold Crown VI, and the Parsons. ALL of them have fitment and quality issues.

One of the Black Wolf tables that I installed had the worst slate grind that I've ever seen.

The Gold Crown VI's have an absurd number of components. If I recall correctly, there are something like 26 boxes for all of the components.

Plus, all of the hardware for ALL Brunswick tables is just thrown in a single bag. No instructions.. Good luck... Hope that your installer can figure it out... Also, it seems to be common practice for them to include the incorrect hardware... For a few of the tables that I've done in the past few months, I've had to go to a hardware store to get the correct bolts, because they have included the incorrect size/length/quantity in the hardware kit.

If you have a warranty claim, good luck!

In short, the company needs to make a ton of improvements, across the board..... It's great that they are developing the Gold Crown VII, but they should be more concerned with improving the quality and customer service, for what they already produce.

 

[bradsh98]

The Gold Crown IV is regarding as the best Gold Crown ever made. All the parts are from overseas.

I do believe that most of the Gold Crown IV was made in Brazil, not China.

 

[garczar]

The Gold Crown IV is regarding as the best Gold Crown ever made. All the parts are from overseas.

It's not "China's" decision, it's the company who decides which manufacturer to contract with to do the work.

I wish we brought manufacturing back to the US. It's one of the key reasons why we won WWII. It will likely never happen though because no one would be able to afford the products.

Some 4's did have a few US sourced parts so they could comply with then current 'Made in America' standards. IIRC some castings and ball returns were made here but that's about it.

 

[garczar]

I do believe that most of the Gold Crown IV was made in Brazil, not China.

IIRC the wood parts were from Brazil and the rest came from Mexico(castings) and China(slate and hardware). Starting with the 5 they are 100% Chinese(Yalin). B'wick themselves told me Yalin is their Asian partner.

 

[trob]

The Gold Crown IV is regarding as the best Gold Crown ever made. All the parts are from overseas.

It's not "China's" decision, it's the company who decides which manufacturer to contract with to do the work.

I wish we brought manufacturing back to the US. It's one of the key reasons why we won WWII. It will likely never happen though because no one would be able to afford the products.

I didn’t say a thing about the gold crown 4.. I said the Current tables being made..

From the opinion of this installer, you are spot on.

By the way, I know that a number of table manufacturers moved operations to Vietnam, a few years ago. Of course, it was for cost savings. I'm fairly certain that Brunswick was one of them.

I have installed quite a few of the latest Brunswick tables, including the Black Wolf, the Black Wolf Pro, the Gold Crown VI, and the Parsons. ALL of them have fitment and quality issues.

One of the Black Wolf tables that I installed had the worst slate grind that I've ever seen.

The Gold Crown VI's have an absurd number of components. If I recall correctly, there are something like 26 boxes for all of the components.

Plus, all of the hardware for ALL Brunswick tables is just thrown in a single bag. No instructions.. Good luck... Hope that your installer can figure it out... Also, it seems to be common practice for them to include the incorrect hardware... For a few of the tables that I've done in the past few months, I've had to go to a hardware store to get the correct bolts, because they have included the incorrect size/length/quantity in the hardware kit.

If you have a warranty claim, good luck!

In short, the company needs to make a ton of improvements, across the board..... It's great that they are developing the Gold Crown VII, but they should be more concerned with improving the quality and customer service, for what they already produce.

this is what I’m talking about. If you’re a Brunswick fanboy that’s cool. I would love Brunswick to be making great tables again. They just aren’t right now. if it matters you can find on here and many people who have asked what to buy on fb I’ve said I think the diamond is the best 7 foot table being made but if you‘re getting a 9 footer and don’t want to spend the money or need a diamond buy and old gold crown. You’ll spend half the money and have a great playing table for life.
The china part was more just making a joke. I don’t particularly care what country makes something if it makes well. If you read it again I blamed it on the current company who owns them just using brunswick for it’s name and not caring about quality.

 

[maha]

the old tables are great buy one and restore it. or just find a lightly used one.

 

[Fatboy]

I have a centennial that’s been recovered once. Pretty much brand new. It’s been in my storage 15 years. I’ve never set it up. Someday I’ll set it up. They are amazing tables.

 

[deanoc]

i HAVE OWNED 4 OR SO OF THE OLD ONES,9 footer
I even had a couple of Mark gregory Centennials

I offered billy incardone about 20000 for his table
the absolute prettiest mark gregory I had ever seen

To the point ,I bought a new Brunswick,it is in my room now

I can not tell the difference in play,the new one was cheaper,new and perfect condition
cam with a full year service etc

I think it is just as good, new,and i would recommend it to anyone
I am not a diamond fan nor do I prefer tight pockets (4.25) but the new table is just as good in my opinion


If you are ever in Dallas come play on my table and decide for yourself

If you absolutely want the best older one , Billy Incardona has the best one I ever saw
and he needs to sell before he moves to Chicago

His table Is beautiful rosewood burl by Mark Gregory, the very best of its kind and at $25,000
may seem like a lot, but there is some satisfaction in having the best

Mark out did himself on this one for his friend Billy

 

[Fatboy]

i HAVE OWNED 4 OR SO OF THE OLD ONES,9 footer
I even had a couple of Mark gregory Centennials

I offered billy incardone about 20000 for his table
the absolute prettiest mark gregory I had ever seen

To the point ,I bought a new Brunswick,it is in my room now

I can not tell the difference in play,the new one was cheaper,new and perfect condition
cam with a full year service etc

I think it is just as good, new,and i would recommend it to anyone
I am not a diamond fan nor do I prefer tight pockets (4.25) but the new table is just as good in my opinion


If you are ever in Dallas come play on my table and decide for yourself

If you absolutely want the best older on Billy Incardone has the best one I ever saw
and he needs to sell before he moves to Chicago

His table Is beautiful rosewood burl by mark gregory,the very best of its kind and at $25,000
may seem like a lot,but there is some satisfaction in having the best

Mark out did himself on this one for his friend Billy

Deano your alive!!!! How are you?

Best
Fatboy

 

[Jimmorrison]

i HAVE OWNED 4 OR SO OF THE OLD ONES,9 footer
I even had a couple of Mark gregory Centennials

I offered billy incardone about 20000 for his table
the absolute prettiest mark gregory I had ever seen

To the point ,I bought a new Brunswick,it is in my room now

I can not tell the difference in play,the new one was cheaper,new and perfect condition
cam with a full year service etc

I think it is just as good, new,and i would recommend it to anyone
I am not a diamond fan nor do I prefer tight pockets (4.25) but the new table is just as good in my opinion


If you are ever in Dallas come play on my table and decide for yourself

If you absolutely want the best older on Billy Incardone has the best one I ever saw
and he needs to sell before he moves to Chicago

His table Is beautiful rosewood burl by mark gregory,the very best of its kind and at $25,000
may seem like a lot,but there is some satisfaction in having the best

Mark out did himself on this one for his friend Billy

Is it a GC VI, or something else? Glad to see you post

 

[jasonlaus]

i HAVE OWNED 4 OR SO OF THE OLD ONES,9 footer
I even had a couple of Mark gregory Centennials

I offered billy incardone about 20000 for his table
the absolute prettiest mark gregory I had ever seen

To the point ,I bought a new Brunswick,it is in my room now

I can not tell the difference in play,the new one was cheaper,new and perfect condition
cam with a full year service etc

I think it is just as good, new,and i would recommend it to anyone
I am not a diamond fan nor do I prefer tight pockets (4.25) but the new table is just as good in my opinion


If you are ever in Dallas come play on my table and decide for yourself

If you absolutely want the best older on Billy Incardone has the best one I ever saw
and he needs to sell before he moves to Chicago

His table Is beautiful rosewood burl by mark gregory,the very best of its kind and at $25,000
may seem like a lot,but there is some satisfaction in having the best

Mark out did himself on this one for his friend Billy

Welcome back!!!

 

[Jimmorrison]

Back to post #1. Has anyone purchased or installed one of these tables?

 

[deanoc]

my thread was meant to say i bought a NEW CENTENNIAL in September
It plays like the old centennial and gold crowns

I think the new Gold Crowns are the best. but I can't say exactly why

If you want to play on mine ,come to Dallas and I think you will buy one

If you want the best older Centennial, Billy Incardone has the nicest one in the world

read my first response above

Hi Fatboy ,good to hear from you as well ,I still play those new balls I got from you

Do you still have that fancy box cue of Barrys

I have a new Gus you might like.,did you get that Jackie Gleason cue i told you about

HI jimmy I WAS TALKING ABOUT A NEW CENTENNIAL i bought in SEPT 2024

i bought a brand new one after careful consideration

I had heard they were not the same quality, but if they aren't,I think they might be better


Before someone corrects me, let me explain

I am 81 years old,super old school and no where near an expert
But I have owned 4 or more Centennial tables ,and half a dozen Gold Crowns

I don't like Diamonds because i can not make a ball or bank

No need to get upset, I admit I am not a good player and I like what
I grew up on

feel free to call me or ask for pictures of my table in house if that will help you

I like my table, the appearance is the same as the old ones and so is the play
at least as far as I can see

i intentionally had larger pockets because I prefer them for myself and guest who enjoy playing when the pockets are not too tight


i also invited a friend who owns a diamond over to play one pocket and we played the same
on both tables,his diamond is the nicest one I played on. but i prefer the Brunswick

Again if you want an older one Billy Incardone is selling his and it is perfect, Mark Gegory restored
it and I believe he is the best,He is not cheap , but if you want the best contact hin