Fractional aim points and their cut angles

garczar said:
if i had to think about that shit while playing i'd never make a ball. so easy to overthink/over-complicate this game.
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Tell um!
 

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nataddrho said:
You still don't understand. Nobody is expected to, or should be, thinking about or doing math while playing pool. All of this stuff is simply an external exercise to come to conclusions with clarity.

For example, a player can spend their entire career playing beautifully and winning tournaments and cash, without ever being aware that they can not generate more top spin by hitting the ball higher then 40% above center. They can hit the ball harder, but going 50% or 55% doesn't add to the amount of spin generated. Maybe the way they play top spin shots is that they try to get their tip as close as possible to the miscue limit near the top of the ball, but they never know that this is unnecessary or why.

Doing the math, at a desk in your house away from pool, quickly shows that the center of percussion of the ball is 2/5R, or 40% from center, on straight top shots. Because of the downward component contributing to friction, a top spin ball hit above 2/5R can never slide. It only rolls.

This calculation is done once in a lifetime, or read once in a lifetime. The player then goes back to the pool hall, only with a distilled piece of knowledge about a simple thing, and maybe it helps them relieve a little pressure on top shots.

Again, math isn't done in anyone's head when they are playing, it is only an alternative exercise in insight that is sometimes useful.

Does that make sense now?
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When Dr. Dave first made his website I printed off every page I could, made a huge 3 ring binder, and memorized it🤣

Nerds are going to nerd.

An old engineer at the pool hall when I was coming up said he thought it was easier for the dumb guys to get real good because they didn't have all this crazy stuff going on in their heads.

The more I learn, the more I think he was on to something.
 
couldnthinkof01 said:
When Dr. Dave first made his website I printed off every page I could, made a huge 3 ring binder, and memorized it🤣

Nerds are going to nerd.

An old engineer at the pool hall when I was coming up said he thought it was easier for the dumb guys to get real good because they didn't have all this crazy stuff going on in their heads.

The more I learn, the more I think he was on to something.
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I hear you. But at least for me, it is very easy to turn all of that off. It is compartmentalized.

I play completely by pre-shot routine and feel. I'd say with billiards I play even more by feel than most players since I consider diamond systems a distraction. Maybe that is why I'm a little bit better at billiards than pool?

Everyone thinks that because I understand all of the math that I try use it while playing. It is the complete opposite; reactionary.
 
nataddrho said:
I hear you. But at least for me, it is very easy to turn all of that off. It is compartmentalized.

I play completely by pre-shot routine and feel. I'd say with billiards I play even more by feel than most players since I consider diamond systems a distraction. Maybe that is why I'm a little bit better at billiards than pool?

Everyone thinks that because I understand all of the math that I try use it while playing. It is the complete opposite; reactionary.
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I agree. Separation of deliberate practice and playing without thinking was a struggle for me. I've gotten better at it over time.

When the guy said this he was probably in his 70's and the amount of information available in those days was slim to none. He was good player in his day and a smart guy. He said it half jokingly, I mention it half jokingly.
 
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Patrick Johnson said:
The "clock system" shown below is, to me, an easier way to connect visual cut angles to CB/OB overlap fractions.

pj
chgo

View attachment 806140
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Questions about this....Is the concept of the clock face also supposed to be applied to the cue ball, while facing it? For example, both '3' lines are "thinning", or contacting with the extreme left/right of the cue ball equator--so, for the 3-left cut, the 9-o'clock area of the cue ball would be intended to strike the target ball? And, for a '1' cut, one would start from either the 1-o'clock or 11-o'clock areas, imagine a vertical line through that point, and then essentially extending that to the target ball as a plane to the desired contact point? If that's not clear, I will try and add a picture later.
 
couldnthinkof01 said:
When Dr. Dave first made his website I printed off every page I could, made a huge 3 ring binder, and memorized it🤣

Nerds are going to nerd.

An old engineer at the pool hall when I was coming up said he thought it was easier for the dumb guys to get real good because they didn't have all this crazy stuff going on in their heads.

The more I learn, the more I think he was on to something.
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They aren't dumb....they're just generally talented, athletic, etc. Nerds try to turn a physical game into a science and find some solution that will make them play well. Dr. Dave has transcribed a lot of what is going on....but guess what? He is also athletic, and puts the time in. Good players just practice, compete, wash, rinse, repeat...and their brains adjust with the experience along with their natural ability. They don't have to solve equations to run out...
 
Matt_24 said:
They aren't dumb....they're just generally talented, athletic, etc. Nerds try to turn a physical game into a science and find some solution that will make them play well. Dr. Dave has transcribed a lot of what is going on....but guess what? He is also athletic, and puts the time in. Good players just practice, compete, wash, rinse, repeat...and their brains adjust with the experience along with their natural ability. They don't have to solve equations to run out...
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Partially the man said it because many of the good players never finished high school.
Partially because many good players couldn't explain why they did, what they did or what was physically going on.
More to the point he said it because to play well requires a clear mind.
The nerd part was just about how some people's minds work and what they enjoy. Some are curious and want to analyze or over analyze everything. Some don't care how or why they just enjoy it for what it is.
Hope this clears things up for you.
 
nataddrho said:
hitting the ball higher then 40% above center. They can hit the ball harder, but going 50% or 55%
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Yogi just opened a channel to say, "yeah but that fastball or curve ball don't have numbers on em." 🤷‍♂️
Speed and spin are the 2 factors I seek to control. Guess the third leg would be Accuracy of the strike. Then hope the computer got the prediction right. I hate it when I hit it exactly as I wanted.....and it didn't go. 🤷‍♂️ grrrr.
 
gregcantrall said:
Yogi just opened a channel to say, "yeah but that fastball or curve ball don't have numbers on em." 🤷‍♂️
Speed and spin are the 2 factors I seek to control. Guess the third leg would be Accuracy of the strike. Then hope the computer got the prediction right. I hate it when I hit it exactly as I wanted.....and it didn't go. 🤷‍♂️ grrrr.
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… what?
 
Mensabum said:
HA HA!!!
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Matt_24 said:
They aren't dumb....they're just generally talented, athletic, etc. Nerds try to turn a physical game into a science and find some solution that will make them play well. Dr. Dave has transcribed a lot of what is going on....but guess what? He is also athletic, and puts the time in. Good players just practice, compete, wash, rinse, repeat...and their brains adjust with the experience along with their natural ability. They don't have to solve equations to run out...
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Hmmm... πr2/abcd = corner pocket and I still missed the damn thing!!
 
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