I've got Simonis 860HR that I've start to install on this table, and I believe I've stretched it correctly. I am seeing what seems to be the right amount of 'pouch' for the side pockets, but the corners are a little tighter than I expected. Did I miss a step, or are they this taut normally.
Pocket pouches when putting on new cloth
- Thread starter billsey
- Start date
Finish your side pockets, before stretching and securing the ends. That will take care of a lot of the streaking that you see at the side pockets, and it will also allow you enough slack to get the side pockets finished off cleanly.
In regards to your corner pockets, it looks like you should be able to pull enough slack to finish them off. Though, it is definitely much easier to get a clean finish, if you use some contact cement in the pockets.
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Ok, I'll be pulling it back apart tonight and tomorrow. The side pockets are way too tight as they sit, I am unable to even get close to pulling the cloth in enough. Even if I try to staple in the center the staples just pull back out due to the tension. I wonder if the cutouts for the pockets themselves are deeper than normal, which would require a larger factor than the 13/16 for the anchor side. I measure 5" across and 3 3/4" deep with a fairly significant bevel all the way around. For the corners, I have assumed I should stretch to the edge of the pocket along the side at the same 1 1/2" that I do at the end, but it looks like that will still be too tight to pull the cloth in. The corners are essentially as deep as the sides...
It looks like you might have enough for the side pockets, but you need to pull it into the pocket from the ends of the table. This will likely create a slight wrinkle or bubble in front of the side pocket. That should get you enough slack. Then, when you pull the cloth into the corner pockets, it should eliminate the wrinkle/bubble. However, as I stated previously, it is MUCH easier if you finish the side pockets before securing the ends. This way, you can have quite a bit more slack at the side pocket, and pull it all out later when you stretch the ends.
OK, here are the pockets:
Ignore the padding... I assume I should be measuring from below the bezel and pulling the cloth to match that measurement again, below the bezel. I'll give 13/16 a try again with this anchor side and finish up that side, then move to the other side, do 3/8 and a 1.5 stretch and finish that side. Once the two side pockets are ready I'll stretch the anchor side to the end on both ends. Then off to the other side to stretch to the ends and finally one end then the other...
Ignore the padding... I assume I should be measuring from below the bezel and pulling the cloth to match that measurement again, below the bezel. I'll give 13/16 a try again with this anchor side and finish up that side, then move to the other side, do 3/8 and a 1.5 stretch and finish that side. Once the two side pockets are ready I'll stretch the anchor side to the end on both ends. Then off to the other side to stretch to the ends and finally one end then the other...
I use a different installation procedure from what you are using, so I can't help very much with the dimensions that you referenced.
I like to secure both sides of the cloth, before finishing the side pockets. It just makes it a bit easier to gauge the stretch into the pockets. Then, I will stretch the ends into the corner pockets, and finish off the pockets. The last thing that I do is stretch and secure the ends of the cloth.
Currently I have most all the staples out and am trying to figure out your procedure. It's complicated slightly because I have cut the fabric on one side pocket, which is where I found I couldn't stretch it enough to get a staple to hold. I've just made the vertical cuts in the cloth, but that does end up with it more relaxed when trying to get the proper tension. Maybe it would help if you broke it down into smaller bits... With the cloth free from all staples, when sitting at the center pocket where I'm planning on anchoring things, do you staple first into the side, then pull the cloth into the pocket, or do you pull the cloth into the pocket, staple that and then move to the sides? Or maybe pull the cloth into the pocket, staple in place, go to the other side and repeat, but with a stretch across the table, then staple it and only then move on to the sides and ends?
Yes, I used that video. The issue is that the areas cut out of the slate for the pockets are quite a bit deeper than the example Diamond, plus they have a significant chamfer on the edge. That, along with two thicknesses of 3/4" plywood under the slate means that the cloth needs to be pulled a lot more to fit against the inside of the pocket. I ended up needing to cut farther up toward the table surface than I wanted, which required a skirt to cover the slits. I'm still not fully satisfied, but have moved on to getting the rails complete before I decide if it's worth trying something else to fix it fully.
BTW, I do really like your videos, I just wish they were less Valley focused, since most furniture tables use staples instead of glue to hold the cloth in place. Also, in regards to that one, when you have the user back off 3/4" from the full 2 1/4" stretch, wouldn't it make more sense to have them back off by 1/3 the total, so you could use it better on large and small tables? I'd expect if someone wanted to put 860HR on a 12' snooker table for some reason, they would end up with a stretch calculation that would be off...
BTW, I do really like your videos, I just wish they were less Valley focused, since most furniture tables use staples instead of glue to hold the cloth in place. Also, in regards to that one, when you have the user back off 3/4" from the full 2 1/4" stretch, wouldn't it make more sense to have them back off by 1/3 the total, so you could use it better on large and small tables? I'd expect if someone wanted to put 860HR on a 12' snooker table for some reason, they would end up with a stretch calculation that would be off...
Ok, follow me here for a minute, then maybe you'll have a better understanding of how to figure out the stretch. Let's say you're figured out that you're doing a 1 1/2' stretch on a Diamond 7ft. Ok, the slate is 47" wide, so take that 1.5" of stretch, divide it by 47" and that gives you a stretch of .0319 stretch per inch, so for example a 9ft slate is 57" wide, so 57"× .0319= 1.819" stretch, or in a fraction that's 1 13/16" stretch side to side and end to end. Once you know what the stretch index is per inch, you can figure ot the stretch for any size table using that exact same cloth.
Yeah, I've done that in the past as well, Mark Gregory and I discussed that almost 22 years ago, but I tend to reserve that for certain slates, not for all installs.
The problem with staples vs my adhesive when installing the bed cloth, is that the staples allow the cloth slack in the side pockets to stretch out more because you're holding the cloth tight at the backer boards, not at the top edges of the slate, so the cloth at that level stretches more towards the corner pockets, and takes away from the slack you need to close off your side pockets. So yes, it's correct to go ahead and finish off your side pockets before you stretch your ends. On the ends, stretch your slack into the 4 corner pockets first, making sure the weave grain is lined up straight, and you'll have plenty of slack to finish the corner pockets off. DON'T staple the middle of the ends BEFORE all 4 corners have been secured first. Once they're done, then go ahead and finish the ends.