Does anyone here have any experience, or opinions about Early Adam Custom Shop Musashi cues?

garczar said:
I got bored and contacted NewArt. They contacted ADAM-Japan and they said there is only one 'NagayaSpecial' If its marked '1/5' its a copy. Also said its not a Musashi cue. As posted earlier that line did not come out til 2000. The original was made at the ADAM-Japan shop. They had no info on cues marked '1/5'. I emailed Li at ADAM-Japan as well and haven't heard back.
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Well now doesn't that suck the air out of an argument. LOL!
 
garczar said:
I got bored and contacted NewArt. They contacted ADAM-Japan and they said there is only one 'NagayaSpecial' If its marked '1/5' its a copy. Also said its not a Musashi cue. As posted earlier that line did not come out til 2000. The original was made at the ADAM-Japan shop. They had no info on cues marked '1/5'. I emailed Li at ADAM-Japan as well and haven't heard back.
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Okay, so maybe the cue is a Chinese knock off.

I just thought the two cues looked so identical. At least, design wise.

Also, I thought it was so strange that that one link was the only webpage that I could find to the reference of "Nagaya Special".

As if that was the only Adam cue ever made with "Nagaya Special" on it.

So, some cue maker thought to rip off that one cue, that has only ever been referenced online once, ever.

It is just so strange.
 
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garczar said:
I got bored and contacted NewArt. They contacted ADAM-Japan and they said there is only one 'NagayaSpecial' If its marked '1/5' its a copy. Also said its not a Musashi cue. As posted earlier that line did not come out til 2000. The original was made at the ADAM-Japan shop. They had no info on cues marked '1/5'. I emailed Li at ADAM-Japan as well and haven't heard back.
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Why find and quote facts when we already have good ol’ guessing, conjecture and fantasy???
 
vintagecollectibles831 said:
Okay, so maybe the cue is a Chinese knock off.

I just thought the two cues looked so identical. At least, design wise.

Also, I thought it was so strange that that one link was the only webpage that I could find to the reference of "Nagaya Special".

As if that was the only Adam cue ever made with "Nagaya Special" on it.

So, some cue maker thought to rip off that one cue, that has only ever been referenced online once, ever.

It is just so strange.
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Good eye, actually. Yes, it is strange.

We are far detached from that market. It wouldn't occur to me there would be knockoff of such cues at all. I never look at such cues.

Perhaps the fact that there is little available online about the cue is what would make a fake easier to pass? Just enough to make it look "right" but not enough to dismiss it immediately?
 
Chopdoc said:
Good eye, actually. Yes, it is strange.

We are far detached from that market. It wouldn't occur to me there would be knockoff of such cues at all. I never look at such cues.

Perhaps the fact that there is little available online about the cue is what would make a fake easier to pass? Just enough to make it look "right" but not enough to dismiss it immediately?
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If there is only one NS cue that would lead the knock-off guys to making copies. The ADAM reply to Kenjii at NewArt said that both '1/5' and 'Musashi' marked copies have been spotted. Makes you wonder just who has the original/sole cue. Probably worth a tad to collectors. Tried looking up Kenji Nagaya on some Japanese(auto-translate is iffy at best) pool/billiard sites and i got this: https://billi-walker.jp/en/article.php/20160806100450883 Looks like he's been around a long time. Still plays a lil at 77yrs.
 
Chopdoc said:
Good eye, actually. Yes, it is strange.

We are far detached from that market. It wouldn't occur to me there would be knockoff of such cues at all. I never look at such cues.

Perhaps the fact that there is little available online about the cue is what would make a fake easier to pass? Just enough to make it look "right" but not enough to dismiss it immediately?
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Who would have the skill to do such an identical design? There are no flaws that I can see in the design. Usually with Philippine copies for example, like a Gina copy, differences and flaws can be seen, but those 2 cues look identical in design. As if they were made on the same CNC, but with different materials. Same font too, with the Nagaya Special, if I am saying that right.
 
vintagecollectibles831 said:
Who would have the skill to do such an identical design? There are no flaws that I can see in the design. Usually with Philippine copies for example, like a Gina copy, differences and flaws can be seen, but those 2 cues look identical in design. As if they were made on the same CNC, but with different materials. Same font too, with the Nagaya Special, if I am saying that right.
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Cues get knock'd-off all the time. Right now Mezz is dealing with a slew of Chinese Exceed ko's. You have to be a Mezz expert to tell them apart. Any cue can be copied to the point its hard to tell.
 
garczar said:
If there is only one NS cue that would lead the knock-off guys to making copies. The ADAM reply to Kenjii at NewArt said that both '1/5' and 'Musashi' marked copies have been spotted. Makes you wonder just who has the original/sole cue. Probably worth a tad to collectors. Tried looking up Kenji Nagaya on some Japanese(auto-translate is iffy at best) pool/billiard sites and i got this: https://billi-walker.jp/en/article.php/20160806100450883 Looks like he's been around a long time. Still plays a lil at 77yrs.
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Yeah, I have been into Adam cues for a very long time, and that was the 1st time I ever seen that design, or seen the name Nagaya.

He was a 14.1 champion, and Artistic Pool champion, back in the 80's, from what I read.
 
garczar said:
Cues get knock'd-off all the time. Right now Mezz is dealing with a slew of Chinese Exceed ko's. You have to be a Mezz expert to tell them apart. Any cue can be copied to the point its hard to tell.
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It just really amazes me. They not only need to copy the exact design, but they also need to put that design into a CNC, and then they must have the skill to put in all of the inlays by hand after doing that, and know how to finish the cue with perfection. From an idiots eye (mine, lol), it looks perfect.

I have seen some of those Meucci copies, for example. They look horrible.
 
vintagecollectibles831 said:
Who would have the skill to do such an identical design? There are no flaws that I can see in the design. Usually with Philippine copies for example, like a Gina copy, differences and flaws can be seen, but those 2 cues look identical in design. As if they were made on the same CNC, but with different materials. Same font too, with the Nagaya Special, if I am saying that right.
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I don't know, but cloning products is an entire industry in China. The more we automate with things like CNC, the easier it gets I would say.
 
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Chopdoc said:
I don't know, but cloning products is entire industry in China. The more we automate with things like CNC, the easier it gets I would say.
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Here is an unmarked cue that appears to be an RC3 / Richard Chudy cue. I never seen points done like that, from any other cue maker. I wonder if the Chinese are knocking off RC3 cues too. I love this design so much. The way the veneers are only on one side of the points. The veneers actually go past the point, to add to the point, to make it longer. I do not know how to even explain that, but it looks very artistic, and very unique. I always believed that was unique to only RC3 cues.
 

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vintagecollectibles831 said:
Here is an unmarked cue that appears to be an RC3 / Richard Chudy cue. I never seen points done like that, from any other cue maker. I wonder if the Chinese are knocking off RC3 cues too. I love this design so much. The way the veneers are only on one side of the points. The veneers actually go past the large point, to add to the point. It is so unique. I always believed that was unique to only RC3 cues
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I almost bought this cue. The original one from Chudy that is. This design was a long time ago.
 
vintagecollectibles831 said:
Here is an unmarked cue that appears to be an RC3 / Richard Chudy cue. I never seen points done like that, from any other cue maker. I wonder if the Chinese are knocking off RC3 cues too. I love this design so much. The way the veneers are only on one side of the points. The veneers actually go past the point, to add to the point, to make it longer. I do not know how to even explain that, but it looks very artistic, and very unique. I always believed that was unique to only RC3 cues.
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It's just a simple one-sided veneer point, no veneers on the other side of the point. That's all. Simple.
 
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