What is your definition..,

The Old Jaybird said:
I would include a fair player who is sponsored/represents a pool company and can support himself with his earnings. prize money plus salary for doing trade shows/exhibitions/etc.

What does he put on his 1040??
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No idea if this is still true but years ago if you weren't making a net yearly profit at something after five years, maybe seven, it was a hobby according to the IRS. That would turn a lot of pro pool players into hobbyists I suspect!

The IRS would make an exception but only if you could show it typically took longer to get in the black. Maybe an orchard would qualify.

Hu
 
ShootingArts said:
No idea if this is still true but years ago if you weren't making a net yearly profit at something after five years, maybe seven, it was a hobby according to the IRS. That would turn a lot of pro pool players into hobbyists I suspect!

The IRS would make an exception but only if you could show it typically took longer to get in the black. Maybe an orchard would qualify.

Hu
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I remember something like 3 out of 5 years for a personal business. Pretty stiff.
 
ShootingArts said:
No idea if this is still true but years ago if you weren't making a net yearly profit at something after five years, maybe seven, it was a hobby according to the IRS. That would turn a lot of pro pool players into hobbyists I suspect!

The IRS would make an exception but only if you could show it typically took longer to get in the black. Maybe an orchard would qualify.

Hu
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I’d be surprised if a waiter or waitress report all of their tips to the IRS. Reported tips on a receipt are one thing but cash tips are another. I’d bet “professional” gambling is about the same. Professional gamblers don’t kiss and tell unless it’s reported winnings.
 
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Biloxi Boy said:
What of the scrubs who devote themselves to it full time but in the end support nothing? Can a loser be a professional?
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I’d call that a professional loser 🥲 But really how can someone devote themselves to anything full time and not make money? Even working for free is not breaking even… the reality of living expenses makes losing an impossibility (at least for an extended period of time) without being independently wealthy... I wish.
 
T411 said:
I’d be surprised if a waiter or waitress reported all of their tips to the IRS. Reported tips on a receipt are one thing but cash tips are another. I’d bet “professional” gambling is about the same. Professional gamblers don’t kiss and tell unless it’s reported winnings.
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Not saying it never happened but I don't know of anyone ever reporting winnings from informal gambling where the "house" wasn't reporting their losses and your wins. Seems great at the time but when you retire you find all of that cash you pocketed is long gone and paying no social security means you get next to nothing.

I knew someone with huge amounts of undocumented income. Closets full of money but he was afraid of getting in trouble with the fed's so he was scared to do any of the things that would seem wise with money. Late seventies and t-birds were hot. He bought one night stands a new Thunderbird sometimes. He had so much cash on hand with more coming in all the time that just storing it became an issue.

Hu
 
ShootingArts said:
Not saying it never happened but I don't know of anyone ever reporting winnings from informal gambling where the "house" wasn't reporting their losses and your wins. Seems great at the time but when you retire you find all of that cash you pocketed is long gone and paying no social security means you get next to nothing.

I knew someone with huge amounts of undocumented income. Closets full of money but he was afraid of getting in trouble with the fed's so he was scared to do any of the things that would seem wise with money. Late seventies and t-birds were hot. He bought one night stands a new Thunderbird sometimes. He had so much cash on hand with more coming in all the time that just storing it became an issue.

Hu
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All true… the life of a “professional” gambler for a lifestyle can lend itself to not thinking about tomorrow along with regrets. But I’ve known a few professionals (some in pool but not necessarily pool) that parlayed that into other incomes that allowed them to continue gambling.

But to keep this on topic times have changed… “professional” gamblers back in the day and today’s Fargo do not coincide.
 
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Fatboy said:
This is an interesting question-what is a pro?

I think that the correct characterization of a “pro” changes over time, it’s not a static thing just related to $ or skill. It’s more complex than that. I’m not one for shallow thinking……

In the 70’s living in motels on the road, white cross tops.

In the 80’s hotels and cocaine

In the 90’s & 2000’s Camel Pro Tour

In the 2010’s I’m not sure

In the 2020’s Milk drinkers and yoga class

Times change and so has pool

Best
Fatboy <——-depressed pool historian 🤓
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I feel the same way. I made a list of guys a couple years ago who finally had to quit playing, because they could no longer get a game they even had a fair chance at, better players would only play even, and worse players had figured out what the nuts were.
Here's one Roger Griffis, If s player of his ability can't make a living at the game, what the hell are the others doing?
 
including instructors doesn't make sense to me. johann ruijsink is the most sought after in that department but he's not a pro player. i don't fully agree with iusedtoberish either, because there has to be results. if there isn't, you're a former pro. mark gray keeps his fargo playing regional senior events, but in my eyes he's a semi-pro / former pro on account of not playing full time, not having results in pro events, etc
 
ShootingArts said:
No idea if this is still true but years ago if you weren't making a net yearly profit at something after five years, maybe seven, it was a hobby according to the IRS. That would turn a lot of pro pool players into hobbyists I suspect!

The IRS would make an exception but only if you could show it typically took longer to get in the black. Maybe an orchard would qualify.

Hu
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I had an LLC insurance regulatory consulting business for 20 years and it never made a "profit", always broke even. If I had "extra" it was spent in December on equipment, or "year end bonus" with a bump into my retirement, or something to make the books balance at year end.
 
The Old Jaybird said:
I had an LLC insurance regulatory consulting business for 20 years and it never made a "profit", always broke even. If I had "extra" it was spent in December on equipment, or "year end bonus" with a bump into my retirement, or something to make the books balance at year end.
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Yes, I know of a few companies like that. One was going to blow out of the small business category. Bonuses, a hundred thousand race car sponsorship in 1974, maybe a purchase or two, they got under I believe it was a quarter mill net at the time. I knew an old man with a concrete business too. After a banner year he bought sixty-four of the giant three rear axle concrete mixer trucks and none of them moved for four years!

I legitimately lost money on paper because I owned my commercial properties. Never did understand depreciating property that was going up in value every year but it worked out nicely.

Hu
 
My definition of a professional pool player is someone that does not miss very often.

Did I get it right?
 
Zerksies said:
This is pool we are talking about. But in general anyone making their income off of something is considered a professional.

Seeing how crappy tournaments are paying. The top players are not making a living on what i would consider comfortable for me. Right now Fuller is in the lead making $95K the Gorst making $58k next. Not livable at all where i live.
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You do realize that we're only 3-1/2mths into the year right...?

Where the hell do you live..?
 
Thunder Thighs said:
Someone who derives his main income from playing pool., whether it's through sponsorship, prize money or gambling.
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Stop inserting common sense into this conversation.

However, I'll go in another direction. You're a professional when you're paid regardless of your performance.

I don't care if you win the USopen or a World Championship. On the right day, if everyone else's limbs fell off, I could win those. Doesn't make me a pro player. Odds just are that someone that can win those events is also a professional. However, if MR or Predator call me up and say, "We'll pay you $10k if you go to the tournament and represent us". I'm a pro...

A pro is someone that has developed credentials strong enough to be paid to perform said task. Be it, a dude continuing to flip burgers after 3mths of probation at McDonalds, doctor performing heart transplants, or a random poking at balls on a table. It is not mandatory to have a certain measurable amount of skill on a 3rd party rating system, or dependent on monies 'won' while performing.
 
There is no definition of a pro pool player.

There is no governing body when it comes to pool. No definition of what makes anyone amateur or professional. No set limit on money won that could impact amateur status & make one a professional etc etc.

Maybe we are all professionals!! :ROFLMAO:
 
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