power draw?

maha said:
yes a stiff wrist is not good. but it is the cue speed that counts and you simply get more speed by flicking your wrist. it has nothing to do with your wrist being stiff or not.
and 100 percent of those videos and demonstration shots are done on fast cloth and with polished balls.

go into a regular pool room and do it with your playing cue and win some of my money. we can start with 500 or 1000 bucks.
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I can take a video at my poolhall if you wanna paypal me. Worn Simonis 860 on a 9ft black crown.
 
sudocrushms said:
It's 100% stroke and accuracy on the cue ball.
One of the most impressive things (to me, at least) that top players can do is get PILES of spin on a ball they've hit relatively softly.
I really like my stroke (most of the time) and can occasionally do it, but the consistency is why they're playing and I'm watching on the couch.

Also being able to hit a max draw from distance perfectly flush on the OB is nuts.
This looks so cool in slow motion:
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Here's SVB on another power draw:

 
jokrswylde said:
Maybe it is the concept of a "power" follow that needs to be clarified or elaborated on. When I think of a "power" follow, I am thinking of a firmly struck cue ball that has a visible moment after contact where it stops, maybe hops back a split second, and then takes off forward. I agree that getting that type of action on the cue ball is just as hard for me as a power follow.

Likewise, what I consider a "standard" follow shot, meaning a rolling cue ball at contact that continues moving forward after contact, is much easier than a power follow for me.
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I think the inconvenient truth here is that, again, the vast majority of players never get passed the awe of 'power draw'. "Hey look what I can do", and they script their games around that ability. I still remember when my game matured beyond just stun/draw. I should add that not all power draw is the same. Usually it's a shooter swinging for the fence and managing some CB action.

'Force follow', imo is a harder shot to hit. Not sure if it's the visual reference or the limitation of the bridge hand, but cueing to the miscue limit on a draw shot, I don't find all that difficult. Can't say the same for max follow. I'm fairly decent at it, but always feel there's more that can be had.
jokrswylde said:
Maybe that's just my unskilled characterization of follow vs. power follow? To me power follows are every bit as hard to manage. Think about putting so much top spin when trying to kill the cue ball on the rail...that is a shot that is a crap shoot for me...
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It is literally the same stroke, merely aimed at a different portion of the CB. To claim it's easier than managing draw is simply a misunderstanding of the physics.
 
Bob Jewett said:
"Immeasurable lesser degree." Yeah. And sometimes not at all. I think most power follow shots are hit at less than 70% of the height of the cue ball, <snip>
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agree...
Bob Jewett said:
and in fact will get more follow on the way to the object ball.
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If that's the case, then the shot should not be characterized as 'power follow'. As I mentioned earlier, 'power' shots spend little to no time touching the table as they travel toward the OB.
Bob Jewett said:
Once the object ball is gone, spin forward and spin back are indistinguishable, but in practice getting that spin to the object ball is very different for draw and follow.
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nope, same shot. The likely inability of players to hit the various shots equally, doesn't change the dynamics of those shots. I'll go as far as to claim that if the two shots are hit in exactly the same fashion, (excluding tip contact point). The resulting power draw will provide greater distance.

This screams for an experiment. I wish I had the equipment and the science chops to conduct it. I'd wager that the power follow suffers more loses than draw. Don't even need to go beyond what the CB endures after being struck by the cue. Launches with draw, bounces with follow.
 
maha said:
yes a stiff wrist is not good. but it is the cue speed that counts and you simply get more speed by flicking your wrist. it has nothing to do with your wrist being stiff or not.
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Physical dynamics of a whipping motion fall in line with the idea of a flicking wrist to generate more spd. However, it does open the door for less than ideal tip placement due to mechanical breakdown. That said, practice makes perfect and snapping your wrist with consistency is a skill no different than any other.

While I do have some measure of wrist action in my stroke. As I'm sure most if not all do. I don't make any effort to increase said action if I'm attempting a heavy draw shot.
maha said:
and 100 percent of those videos and demonstration shots are done on fast cloth and with polished balls.

go into a regular pool room and do it with your playing cue and win some of my money. we can start with 500 or 1000 bucks.
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...and I think this is where the arguments I'm facing are coming from. The reality of my take on power draw vs follow is based on quality conditions. I have noted that less than ideal conditions does in fact effect one's ability to generate power draw. Again, though, those conditions also effect power follow. Albeit to a lesser degree.
 
Howdy

Been thinking about power draw lately (still learning).
Its like when you play ping pong, and you want to give extra spin to the ball, you always flick your wrist to increase the rotation.
I tried a few shots and on my very slow table, i got some good results.
My table is so slow, when CB and OB are 4 diamond apart, i can draw only about 3-4 diamonds.
I tried and preload my wrist, releasing it at the time of contact, and got a massive response, whitey bouncing back from the short rail
I need to practice some more.
BR
 
No need to power draw. It's a worthless shot but great to showoff.

If you need to power draw then that means there are other ways to get to a ball that you're not seeing.

If the "power draw" is the end all and it means you can draw anything from the Mona Lisa to a cue ball then that is false. You don't need to learn a power draw in order to make a simple draw.

Skip the complicated and often hard-to-execute power draw and go straight to learning just how to draw a stick figure and cue bal. If you can draw back 12 inches then you're good to go.
 
Thought I was on this but same thing. Level works best for effortless, utility, close to the OB draw. If you're outside of 4 feet and need to come back 7 or more feet, _you are looking at a jump shot_. IOW elevation is your friend. My analysis; refutable but makes sense to me follows:
Even the slightest aerial action will eliminate all the friction. The ball will land with all the spin still going. You don't need to hit as low as possible. Grey area here is by hitting closer to center you use a higher gear ratio and by hitting downward, you can apply more cue speed without butchering the CB.
 
You missed the point.
Its about preloading your wrist and releasing it.
I want to understand and learn the technique.
It also gives me better accuracy.
 
Probably got between you guys. Such as it is, the technique is maximum impact speed. Try a loose grip with a stand up, fully extended stroke if you doubt. You gotta filter your own way.
 
It was meant as an aswer to billiards_watch.
But straightline, you are right. Loose grip, with thumb and index arround the cue, the middle one is to cradle.
I like to experiment to a point if i see a point. In this case, the wrist is preloaded like a spring, and released into action at the contact. Of courso no wrist twist, just release.
 
mareh said:
It was meant as an aswer to billiards_watch.
But straightline, you are right. Loose grip, with thumb and index arround the cue, the middle one is to cradle.
I like to experiment to a point if i see a point. In this case, the wrist is preloaded like a spring, and released into action at the contact. Of courso no wrist twist, just release.
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Try stuff like a slow stroke and see how much speed you can generate by increasing the length. The biggest help for me was CBL; watching the cue ball
 
I think achieving draw is generally misexplained

two components at play required , cue ball speed and backwards rotation

how you achieve the above can vary

I suggest applying all the tips you read when practicing and trying to understand the relationship of said techniques to speed and rotation

the term 'power' should generally be removed from all billiards vocabulary and replaced with 'force' ,
understanding the difference will help
 
measureman said:
I just came across something that allegedly Buddy Hall said regarding how to power draw.
He said to grip the cue a little farther back and move the bridge hand a little closer to the cue ball.
What do you think?
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I'd be more concerned with what my wrist was doing than those factors. Without that snap, won't matter where all the other stuff is.
 
My friend Rod has amazing power draw, at SBE his break stroke speed was clocked at 28mph, mine was clocked at 14mph, that was with an 18.5 oz cue, I now use a 22.5oz cue, am I getting better draw, yes, but I am not getting that spin where the cue ball looks like it is accelerating, I am getting a LOT of draw, just not that "show stopping" draw, every player will have strengths and weaknesses in their game due to God given abilities, not every pitcher in baseball has a 100mph fastball yet some are still good enough to win a Cy Young award, maximize YOUR strengths and continue improving your weaknesses to the best of YOUR God given abilities, the person with the best draw stroke doesn't always win the tournament 😉
 
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