You could feel your wood shaft swelling on a humid day?!
Were you playing with a balsa wood shaft, lol?
Lou Figueroa
Pia Filler hates wood shafts
- Thread starter cueball2010
- Start date
You could feel your wood shaft swelling on a humid day?!
Were you playing with a balsa wood shaft, lol?
Lou Figueroa
I've played in ultra humid conditions my whole life. Never noticed a shaft hitting/playing differently due to conditions. Yeah the surface get sticky but how it actually hits-plays? No. Not in my experience. As to cf, who's to say it isn't affected? I've had a couple composites guys tell me that real high humidity can shorten its lifespan. Granted it would take a lot of water and time but it can still break down. I use both and don't worry about any of this.
Please. CF shafts can not give more spin. A little more power maybe but not spin. The material of the shaft has no affect on spin, that's purely a function of tip offset.
In the video, Pia said that humid conditions "changes the shaft jump sometimes" (1:05)
I have no idea what "shaft jump" means, maybe just bad English on her behalf...
For years I've been playing with Predator 314 shafts, so I can't really say anything about old-school solid maple shafts. I don't remember feeling a difference in playability in different humidity; maybe it's there, maybe it's the table, I don't know. All I do know is that wood might warp in humid conditions and moving between conditions – not all of them, not all the time, but it could happen; it happened to me.
I had a Dominiak spliced shaft that warped, I had an OB spliced shaft that warped, and I have a few solid maple shafts that warped. Granted, I have more shafts that haven't warped than shafts that have.
Warping is a good enough reason for a travelling player to move to CF, as it won't happen; you won't have to go looking to buy a new shaft just before a tournament that you are not used to, and you don't need to travel with 4 extra shafts... which will not feel the same, as no two pieces of wood are the same and a used one will feel different than a new one. The only reason to have an extra shaft will be in case of a tip flying off, and two CF shafts from the same brand will play and feel the same.
So we have consistency, not just with the same shaft in all conditions but between numerous shafts if you need to switch.
We have durability; it won't warp or ding, etc.
These give a player a clear mind regarding the equipment while playing and touring, something that some of the folks here can't seem to understand.
For the amateur player who usually only plays locally, going to CF is a good idea, as the above reasons will just make the shaft last longer, so the high price now will actually be cheaper in the long run. I don't think that a player that already has a cue should run and get a CF shaft. I'm saying that if you are in the market for a new cue or shaft (for whatever reason), you might as well go with CF.
I didn't need to get a CF shaft; I have at least one Predator 314-2 shaft for any joint type I have in my small collection, even 2 shafts for some...
I was just curious about it, and I do think that they are great; they are the future.
could be, but adding power will spin the CB more with the same stroke.
nope. hitting harder just increases forward speed. the spin/speed ratio is the same. tip offset is what determines how much spin you get. shaft material doesn't increase/decrease amount of spin.
I think for a given offset, the shaft with better transmission can indeed cause more spin. It's when you ram the ball that the energy is primarily forward motion.
Pia Filler is supplied with all of her gear by a sponsor. She shills for her sponsor as those that are sponsored are expected to do. As several other posters have noted regarding their gear, I also have numerous maple shafts 30-45 years old and they’re all dead straight. Maple requires proper maintenance, care and storage, and if given these things they will last a lifetime. If you want to believe Pia, if you like CF or other forms of LD shafts, then I’m happy for you. Everyone is different and free to believe, like, buy, and use whatever they can afford or that blows their hair back. It’s the dissemination of false info that I find disturbing. I mean if you want to drink the kool aid, great, just don’t expect everyone to want to join you.
Well, might as well stir the pot! If carbon shafts had came out for fifty bucks nobody would play with them. Marketed as high end shafts I suspect Predator in particular is stunned at how well they sell!
I have played with only two CF shafts. One was probably a prototype 11.8 REVO. That shaft is amazing. Good feel and feedback, I could happily play with it all the time if it fit my cue. The owner might be a little whiney if I stole it but that's life!(grin) Persuaded me to invest in a CF shaft and I bought the Cynergy. Mistake, I don't like it despite being another 11.8 CF shaft. Hit is on the dead side.
The one good thing about the CF shaft is that it is the same year around playing in South LA. My wood playing shaft warps and straightens every year. The warp is very slight and I have played with it a decade or so.
Wood, spliced wood, and CF are different beasts. I have a fondness for wood, not so much spliced wood. When I had my cue shop I bought a few gross of shaft blanks, a gross at a time. Less than ten percent of shafts were outstanding, about thirty percent usable for customers, another ten or fifteen percent usable for my own shafts. A good straight grain being more important than ring count. I had eight ring shafts that played fine. How they faired in a ping test was more important than ring count but ring count was a marketing thing and I didn't even try to sell less than twelve to fifteen ring count shafts. Above fifteen were premium shafts for special cues.
Good wood well maintained may still warp slightly. Only affect play if you let it get in your head. I still index for a few percent more consistent play. I think Predator is the one that found a good wooden shaft only had 3% difference regardless of how it was turned. A plain wood shaft has a sweet feel that I don't find in spliced wood. Thee main reason for splicing was because of all of the crappy shaft wood around a production shop. With a shaft with a lot of splices the glue lines supplement or replace the growth rings. Saves a lot of wood they couldn't market as a one piece shaft. I have a very hard time plunking down a premium price for a spliced shaft that is almost certainly partially salvaged wood. Some hit OK, some don't. I have only hit other people's, never hit with one I liked enough to run out and buy one.
A wood shaft can be stabilized. I tried that. Deadened the feel of the shaft. It is amazing how much of the stabilizer a shaft blank soaks up in a minute or less!
Carbon Fiber has taken over most sports and I am sure will largely take over pool too. I notice they have wood racquet tennis matches though so wood may survive to a decent degree. One of the best hitting cues to this day is a one piece house cue. The old masters weren't trying to build a better cue, just a cue that came close to the hit of a one piece full splice cue that had a joint in it to tote around. A wrap can be nice too.
End of the day it will be whatever cranks your tractor. Starting out, I would go with Carbon Fiber, one less variable to get used to. It plays the same however you turn it. I still find myself trying to index it, over fifty years of habit isn't going away easily. I enjoy leaving my case at home and sticking a BRAD tool and tiny piece of sandpaper or Scotchbrite in my pocket. Grab something off the wall, maybe tune it a little, and play. There is a feeling of freedom not toting that case full of stuff I don't use most of anyway.
While PIA is certainly a great player, she is relatively inexperienced starting play in 2016 if I understood her correctly. The Willard tool to abuse her tips with tells me a lot. I have two Willards in my case, all I use are the cutouts on the side to show people wanting a new tip what their actual tip radius is instead of what they think it is! I tried to keep my tip at a dime radius for a month once. In that time I completely ground down a nice layered tip!
CF seems like wood, a lot of variance possible. Some are very good, I suspect most are caca as far as feel. A thousand percent mark up is pretty sweet for the makers or marketers though.
Hu
I have played with only two CF shafts. One was probably a prototype 11.8 REVO. That shaft is amazing. Good feel and feedback, I could happily play with it all the time if it fit my cue. The owner might be a little whiney if I stole it but that's life!(grin) Persuaded me to invest in a CF shaft and I bought the Cynergy. Mistake, I don't like it despite being another 11.8 CF shaft. Hit is on the dead side.
The one good thing about the CF shaft is that it is the same year around playing in South LA. My wood playing shaft warps and straightens every year. The warp is very slight and I have played with it a decade or so.
Wood, spliced wood, and CF are different beasts. I have a fondness for wood, not so much spliced wood. When I had my cue shop I bought a few gross of shaft blanks, a gross at a time. Less than ten percent of shafts were outstanding, about thirty percent usable for customers, another ten or fifteen percent usable for my own shafts. A good straight grain being more important than ring count. I had eight ring shafts that played fine. How they faired in a ping test was more important than ring count but ring count was a marketing thing and I didn't even try to sell less than twelve to fifteen ring count shafts. Above fifteen were premium shafts for special cues.
Good wood well maintained may still warp slightly. Only affect play if you let it get in your head. I still index for a few percent more consistent play. I think Predator is the one that found a good wooden shaft only had 3% difference regardless of how it was turned. A plain wood shaft has a sweet feel that I don't find in spliced wood. Thee main reason for splicing was because of all of the crappy shaft wood around a production shop. With a shaft with a lot of splices the glue lines supplement or replace the growth rings. Saves a lot of wood they couldn't market as a one piece shaft. I have a very hard time plunking down a premium price for a spliced shaft that is almost certainly partially salvaged wood. Some hit OK, some don't. I have only hit other people's, never hit with one I liked enough to run out and buy one.
A wood shaft can be stabilized. I tried that. Deadened the feel of the shaft. It is amazing how much of the stabilizer a shaft blank soaks up in a minute or less!
Carbon Fiber has taken over most sports and I am sure will largely take over pool too. I notice they have wood racquet tennis matches though so wood may survive to a decent degree. One of the best hitting cues to this day is a one piece house cue. The old masters weren't trying to build a better cue, just a cue that came close to the hit of a one piece full splice cue that had a joint in it to tote around. A wrap can be nice too.
End of the day it will be whatever cranks your tractor. Starting out, I would go with Carbon Fiber, one less variable to get used to. It plays the same however you turn it. I still find myself trying to index it, over fifty years of habit isn't going away easily. I enjoy leaving my case at home and sticking a BRAD tool and tiny piece of sandpaper or Scotchbrite in my pocket. Grab something off the wall, maybe tune it a little, and play. There is a feeling of freedom not toting that case full of stuff I don't use most of anyway.
While PIA is certainly a great player, she is relatively inexperienced starting play in 2016 if I understood her correctly. The Willard tool to abuse her tips with tells me a lot. I have two Willards in my case, all I use are the cutouts on the side to show people wanting a new tip what their actual tip radius is instead of what they think it is! I tried to keep my tip at a dime radius for a month once. In that time I completely ground down a nice layered tip!
CF seems like wood, a lot of variance possible. Some are very good, I suspect most are caca as far as feel. A thousand percent mark up is pretty sweet for the makers or marketers though.
Hu
If you were a touring pro, traveling from one event to the next, playing from morning to night, wouldn’t you prefer to have a shaft that doesn’t require that maintenance?
I know all about maintaining wooden shafts and I have everything I need to do so, yet I prefer not to be needing it and just wipe the shaft once in a while and I’m not even a touring player, just someone who has better things to do with my time…
In the past it was a must, today, there are other options.
If you like to work on your shaft, that’s fine, but you have to look at that from the perspective of a player like Pia and many others.
cueball2010
Active member
So your saying that the majority of 12+ ring wood shafts are better (feel/stability) than the majority of 314-3 shafts?
Interesting what you said toward the end. Maybe in pool they should run Wood or CF only tourneys. or Ferrule length mins. Synthetic tip only. Not to say equipment is not already regulated by Full length cue minimum, tip diameter max, break cue max weight, No jump cues, jump cues over 40" only, etc
ok take a breath, old man. She's too young for you.
Better feel as far as old school players are concerned. I have been at this game over fifty years. I have hit a little with a handful of 314's don't care for the feel. Stability in all conditions is probably a little better with the 314 simply because the glue lines provide radial reinforcement, something growth rings don't do. My opinion, the growth rings are more important to how a wooden shaft plays, the glue lines more important to how a 314 plays.
Plain wooden shafts are always an unknown. We can see obvious waves and curves in the wood grain but we can't see the stresses that were in the wood when it was part of a tree. That is why it took a bare minimum of two years and about eight turnings for me to trust a blank. This was for blanks that were supposedly already properly aged. Eight turnings got a blank down to ready for a few final turning passes for the particular taper wanted. Have to admit that I started offering two tapers, mine and what I called a european taper, a modified straight taper that tapered at a constant rate from the tip to beyond typical bridge length then at a faster rate to match the butt.
One problem, everyone uses their own terminology, often using the same terms to mean different things. Especially when discussing the polyarc shafts. My polyarc or multiconic shaft can be totally different from someone elses. For awhile I would copy a taper but if a cue builder is still in business I prefer the customer to go back to the original builder if you want their shaft.
Hu
My experience with CF is that it imparts more energy into the cue ball than wood.
I believe it does generate more spin.
I use the Mezz Ignite shaft and I have no problems with feed back issues.
Some wood shafts warp in my experience but most don't.
I drives me crazy if there are dings in a wood shaft.
The CF is super easy to maintain and it doesn't ding.
After play I just wipe down with alcohol on a paper towel.
CF is super smooth.
The Ignite shaft is not cheap.
Heat combined with humidity is gonna effect wood.
Touring pros play in air-conditioned rooms.
If you are playing in an open to the outdoor room in the PI, then I think that would be different..........
When a cue butt warps that is a sad day indeed..........
I believe it does generate more spin.
I use the Mezz Ignite shaft and I have no problems with feed back issues.
Some wood shafts warp in my experience but most don't.
I drives me crazy if there are dings in a wood shaft.
The CF is super easy to maintain and it doesn't ding.
After play I just wipe down with alcohol on a paper towel.
CF is super smooth.
The Ignite shaft is not cheap.
Heat combined with humidity is gonna effect wood.
Touring pros play in air-conditioned rooms.
If you are playing in an open to the outdoor room in the PI, then I think that would be different..........
When a cue butt warps that is a sad day indeed..........
As I said in my initial post, if you or anyone else wants to believe Pia, or if you want to guzzle the Kool-Aid that is the marketing hype of the industry, if you enjoy CF or other forms of LD shafts, then good for you, guzzle away. It’s your money, it’s your game, and you can do whatever you want, can afford or that makes you happy. I can live with that.
I will disagree with your assertion that I have to look at it from Pia’s, or other players perspectives. With respect to Pia, I have cues, shafts and cases older than her. With respect to you, I’ve clearly stated you can do whatever you like, just don’t expect others to always agree with you. Given you’ve littered this thread with posts telling us all of your vast knowledge and that we should all just accept “this is the future”, it appears that you can’t quite accept others not agreeing with your perspective. You should work on that, you’ll be happier.
well... actually... truth be told... she does not do it for me.
Lou Figueroa
old but not dead
I have never experienced any change in the diameter of my cue shafts increasing from being exposed to humidity,
especially in a pool room simply playing with my cues. Maybe if the pool room’s sprinkler system unexpectedly
went in and I continued playing regardless of the increased humidity. You should probably talk with your cue makers.
My shafts don’t increase diameter but if they did, due to humidity or the earth’s gravitational pull, it’s imperceptible..
especially in a pool room simply playing with my cues. Maybe if the pool room’s sprinkler system unexpectedly
went in and I continued playing regardless of the increased humidity. You should probably talk with your cue makers.
My shafts don’t increase diameter but if they did, due to humidity or the earth’s gravitational pull, it’s imperceptible..
I met her at the Derby this year and I think she is one of the most beautiful and charming women I have ever seen. Please don't reply with any mean comments; she deserves praise from all of us.
Wood shafts do decrease in diameter over time.