Is a Jump Shot an "Obvious Shot"?
- Thread starter Crasher
- Start date
I think it depends on the game. Let's say eight ball, the player is shooting with a jump cue, and if the obstructing ball were gone, the shot in that direction would be obvious. In that case, for me it is the obvious shot. The CSI/BCAPL/USAPL rules are generally more strict, but as noted, they don't cover jump shot calls except that the ref is the final say on "obvious". There are some jump shots with a full cue that go over the edge of a ball, so that you can't tell whether it was a jump shot or not.
NOTE: Not arguing or disagreeing with Bob, just providing more context. And if you aren't using CSI rules, this won't apply, but I think it provides a solid starting point.
The CSI rule book defines "Obvious shot" like so:
Based on this, the standard is as follows: IF there is a) no obstruction between the cue ball and the object ball AND b) there is no obstruction between the object ball and the pocket THEN the shot is considered obvious. A jump shot has an obstruction between the cue ball and the object ball and can not therefore be considered obvious. For clarity, I believe the rule book should be updated to include jump shots in the explicit list, but by definition a jump shot is not obvious.
The CSI rule book defines "Obvious shot" like so:
Based on this, the standard is as follows: IF there is a) no obstruction between the cue ball and the object ball AND b) there is no obstruction between the object ball and the pocket THEN the shot is considered obvious. A jump shot has an obstruction between the cue ball and the object ball and can not therefore be considered obvious. For clarity, I believe the rule book should be updated to include jump shots in the explicit list, but by definition a jump shot is not obvious.
There can be confusion as to what exactly constitutes a "kick shot". If the OB is close to the rail (but not contacting it) and the CB contacts the adjacent rail (of the intended pocket) first before contacting the OB, is that a kick shot? Some might argue yes, since technically a rail was contacted before the OB. Therefore, I feel more precise language is warranted.
I started a thread a decade or so back regarding this subject. The following is criteria of what constitutes an "obvious shot" that I ended up coming up with that attempts to eliminate all ambiguity...
1) The first thing the cue ball contacts is the pocketed ball or the rail adjacent to the pocket in which the ball is pocketed.
2) The pocketed ball doesn't contact another object ball.
3) The pocketed ball doesn't contact a rail other than the two adjacent rails of the pocket in which it is pocketed.
So given the above, a jump shot, provided it still meets all the above criteria, would be considered an obvious shot.
CSI is pretty thorough. I long ago developed the habit of calling the ball and pocket as a part of my self hypnosis. Saying it aloud gives it power.
That rule is playable. Simply interrupt rudely as to the shot being played. 2nd most common utterance in bar pool "Where you goin with that?"
I have no problem with a truly obvious jump shot. If it's pretty clear to any knowledgeable player what the shooter is intending to do (jump over a ball, contact the intended object ball and make it in an open pocket) then I have no problem with an opponent treating it as an obvious shot.
I would typically call that out myself as a shooter, especially if I'm playing against someone I don't know well just to avoid any issues, but I would never call someone on that unless I truly felt it wasn't obvious and then I'd ask them what they're doing before they shoot if I'm able.
I would typically call that out myself as a shooter, especially if I'm playing against someone I don't know well just to avoid any issues, but I would never call someone on that unless I truly felt it wasn't obvious and then I'd ask them what they're doing before they shoot if I'm able.
Exactly. There is ambiguity in the what constitutes all those terms ("kick", "bank", "carom", "kiss", etc.), unless there is another section in the rules that precisely nails down those definitions. That's why the criteria I proposed eliminates all mention of such ambiguous terms.
Exactly, its not hard to do and takes little time. I don't understand guys not calling the 8 during 8 ball, why leave any question as to your intentions on the money ball???
Specially in a match with someone you don’t know in league or a tournament.
On the other side of that I’m not going to call a foul if you jump a ball and make it in the obvious pocket.. I’m just not that guy lol
This!!
I agree with this under WPA rules. To me it’s the same in 10b if I’m hooked behind the 10, the ball on is the 6b and it’s over the hole and the player jumps over the 10 to make the 6 in that pocket it is obvious.
I think the CSI rules generally want things called (because it’s league and to avoid confusion) so I wouldn’t be surprised if they interpret their rules to require all jump shots to be called (although I think it is debatable under their rules).
That said, I’m pretty sure I call every jump out of an abundance of caution (on the off chance I actually make one).
I call stuff so they'll notice what I'm doing. 
It's the obvious stuff that starts the arguments.
It's the obvious stuff that starts the arguments.