What makes a shaft whippy?
- Thread starter CeaseLess
- Start date
The wood itself, the diameter, and the taper.
Taper is enough for me. That changes with CF but I have yet to go there.
Incidentally, there's this carbon tube weave that's not actually new but looks promising for pool sticks and maybe cloth as well.
Incidentally, there's this carbon tube weave that's not actually new but looks promising for pool sticks and maybe cloth as well.
Flakeandrun
Well-known member
When I use the term, I refer pretty much only to the flex.
CeaseLess
Active member
Can you elaborate on the wood coming into play, admittedly I'm not too knowledgeable on the subject.
CeaseLess
Active member
Does the flex soely come from the diameter
Some wood does not have as much "spine" as other wood.
There could be a variety of things that contribute to that.
The wood isn't aged enough, it doesn't have enough growth rings, high moisture content, grain runout, etc.
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Flakeandrun
Well-known member
I think the density of the wood and the taper will be the contributing factors. Perhaps you could "ask the cue maker" section
RidgeRaider
Well-known member
The general term I like to use for this, is "spine". It's a term more commonly used in Archery, where they measure the stiffness of their arrow shafts (both wood and carbon fiber) in a numbered scale of 100-1000 spine. Spine strength is basically the overall rigidity of the given piece (shaft). In theory, longer and thinner objects have less spine, shorter and thicker objects have more spine (assuming working with wood and carbon fiber).
So, the spine of a cue shaft for the most part will come down to a few things. The type of wood used, the diameter of the shaft, and the length of the shaft. Carbon fiber is different, but still mainly comes down to the wall thickness and diameter / length.
Softer wood, longer shaft length, thin diameter (like 12mm) are going to make for a super whippy shaft unless counteracted like a lot of makers nowadays do.
So, the spine of a cue shaft for the most part will come down to a few things. The type of wood used, the diameter of the shaft, and the length of the shaft. Carbon fiber is different, but still mainly comes down to the wall thickness and diameter / length.
Softer wood, longer shaft length, thin diameter (like 12mm) are going to make for a super whippy shaft unless counteracted like a lot of makers nowadays do.
This is pure structural mechanics stuff.
The stiffness of a shaft is proportional to the 4th power of its diameter and inversely proportional the the square of its length.
Given that the length of the shaft is essentially constant::
The stiffness is proportional to 4th power (d^4) its diameter integrated along the length of the shaft. {Timoshenko}
List of second moments of area - Wikipedia
So, the thinner the shaft is, and the longer the taper is, the whippier it is.
Now as to taper, since diameter is increasing as the taper progresses, the tip of the shaft is a lot more whippy than 1/3rd of the way back, the tip is vastly whippier than 2/3rds of the way back. {50 years ago I could "do the math" but that day is gone}
If it goes
“Whipshayaew”
“Whipshayaew”
CeaseLess
Active member
Would any of things that make a wood softer, or have less spine, inherently lead that shaft to have more deflection then a shaft that has the same specs but with more spine?
CeaseLess
Active member
Very interesting and informative. Couple questions. What would you look for when finding a softer wood that would play lively? Would you look at grain and growth rings, or is something else an indicator? What specs would you think to use for a shaft I described? Maybe a 30 inch shaft, 12mm, 17 inch pro taper. And how do makers counteract that, splicing and coring?
Iwishiwasrich
Well-known member
I know 80's and 90's meucci's had a lot of whip,flex whatever you want to call it. At least the ones I owned did.
CeaseLess
Active member
I've always wanted to try one but haven't got a chance. What is the hit and feel of a whippy shaft?
RidgeRaider
Well-known member
well, if ya want to feel vibration, you'll need a harder wood, as a soft wood will dampen the vibrations. I'd probably just stick to a maple shaft, 12mm, 30", taper will be primarily personal preference, but you can take it up as far as 19" if you want all the whip you can get out of it.
I make wooden shafts for some of my custom cues, and generally just being 12mm and 30" is enough to make them pretty whippy.
Iwishiwasrich
Well-known member
Soft hit and you can see the shaft flexing.
Oh really, Mr. Smartpants? Then how "whippy" is a telephone pole? Hahaha!!!This is pure structural mechanics stuff.
The stiffness of a shaft is proportional to the 4th power of its diameter and inversely proportional the the square of its length.
Given that the length of the shaft is essentially constant::
The stiffness is proportional to 4th power (d^4) its diameter integrated along the length of the shaft. {Timoshenko}
List of second moments of area - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
So, the thinner the shaft is, and the longer the taper is, the whippier it is.
Now as to taper, since diameter is increasing as the taper progresses, the tip of the shaft is a lot more whippy than 1/3rd of the way back, the tip is vastly whippier than 2/3rds of the way back. {50 years ago I could "do the math" but that day is gone}
"A typical telephone pole is about 40 feet long, with approximately 6 feet buried underground, leaving about 34 feet above ground. The base diameter is usually around 20–30 inches, tapering to a tip diameter of about 8–14 inches."
All jokes aside, thanks for the math. I love it when people bring actual science to the table for things I didn't know there was science for. Don't get me wrong, I'm not surprised there's science behind this. I'm just impressed someone here actually knows what it is.
See if someone will let you play with their Meucci. Bonus if you can find one with a tip under 12.5mm. I had one back in the mid 90's and it honestly didn't play bad. I'm not sure how easily I could go back to that now that I'm used to a much, much stiffer taper and harder hit with more feedback. But it worked well for me for several years.