the most I would spend for a custom doesn't exceed past $1,500. I know that some cost more but I don't have to go overboard to get what I like. I got 3 custom cue makers that make cues within my budget. hopefully in 6 months, I'd be able to get it.
Custom and High End Cues on the Decline?
- Thread starter Logandgriff
- Start date
Most are > 1500 nowadays,,,,sadly that number doesn’t get you very much anymore from a well established maker, with proven pedigree, high quality, and hit
Hmmm...
High end cues are not *one* category of cues. You can have two 15K cues with two very different reasons for them being 15k. If you want to argue the merits of a $5000 sneaky pete by some mystical warlock of a cuemaker vs a Mezz cue, its worth a conversation. My views have evolved as I have gotten older. The cues that you see that are newly made, are art in their own right. BUT do not think buying them is going to make you 2 balls better. Only practice will do that. I have said that if a cue was so magical and worth a few balls of your game, or a few tournaments a year, that pros would play with them. They don't play with them, and it goes beyond sponsorship. They can beat you with anything, they could probably beat you with a ramin cue and a slip on tip.
Now high end cues, you buy for the pride of ownership. Of owning nice things. You can have a Timex, or a Rolex, they BOTH keep time. You buy high end custom cues, new ones, and vintage Szambotis / Balabushkas because you like nice things and appreciate history and because you can. If you are a player looking to play better, practice. That's it. As far as the cue.. buy what you can afford, and what you like. If you shoot with an LD shaft, the butt won't matter as much.
Are they on the decline, yes, but not why you think. As Sean bought up and we all saw at the ICCS high end cues have an audience. What is in the decline is cue collecting by the average person. When I was playing, everyone, even C/D players had 2-3 or more cues. Now this doesn't seem as prevalent today. People change; habits change. Hell, young people can barely pay their rent, how the hell can they buy 4 5k cues?
But it would not hurt to have some more online reference to cues, and introduction to cues, and better visual cues to try and get more of today's younger people into cues. 30 years ago, almost every custom cue was or had a collector. I hate to throw out names, but so many of those middle tier guys have been lost to time. Not every cue is going to hold value or even be valuable in the long term. BUT people need to know about them, and they still should be in collections. Also collecting cannot be "snobbish", if all a guy can afford are Meucci's, or collect Hueblers, he is still a collector. Being a positive influence to collectors is very big.
The big killer and its been a long time problem are the shenanigans that go on with sellers. Paperwork that gets "lost", or the cue doesn't match the LOA. People spending big money don't like to look stupid. When untrustworthy things are allowed, and they have been allowed by many people that have been considered custodians of the industry, it makes all of us look bad. Sellers with absolutely ZERO knowledge claiming to be dealers, it's a joke. Using AI to hide your ignorance in a cue write up... you cannot make this up.
At the show I bought up a cue and collector registry, where you could join, get your cues registered, and if you sold a cue, the cue could be moved to the new owner with all documentations never to be lost or misplaced. It's a little more in-depth than that simple explanation, but it's the smart thing to do.
Joe
High end cues are not *one* category of cues. You can have two 15K cues with two very different reasons for them being 15k. If you want to argue the merits of a $5000 sneaky pete by some mystical warlock of a cuemaker vs a Mezz cue, its worth a conversation. My views have evolved as I have gotten older. The cues that you see that are newly made, are art in their own right. BUT do not think buying them is going to make you 2 balls better. Only practice will do that. I have said that if a cue was so magical and worth a few balls of your game, or a few tournaments a year, that pros would play with them. They don't play with them, and it goes beyond sponsorship. They can beat you with anything, they could probably beat you with a ramin cue and a slip on tip.
Now high end cues, you buy for the pride of ownership. Of owning nice things. You can have a Timex, or a Rolex, they BOTH keep time. You buy high end custom cues, new ones, and vintage Szambotis / Balabushkas because you like nice things and appreciate history and because you can. If you are a player looking to play better, practice. That's it. As far as the cue.. buy what you can afford, and what you like. If you shoot with an LD shaft, the butt won't matter as much.
Are they on the decline, yes, but not why you think. As Sean bought up and we all saw at the ICCS high end cues have an audience. What is in the decline is cue collecting by the average person. When I was playing, everyone, even C/D players had 2-3 or more cues. Now this doesn't seem as prevalent today. People change; habits change. Hell, young people can barely pay their rent, how the hell can they buy 4 5k cues?
But it would not hurt to have some more online reference to cues, and introduction to cues, and better visual cues to try and get more of today's younger people into cues. 30 years ago, almost every custom cue was or had a collector. I hate to throw out names, but so many of those middle tier guys have been lost to time. Not every cue is going to hold value or even be valuable in the long term. BUT people need to know about them, and they still should be in collections. Also collecting cannot be "snobbish", if all a guy can afford are Meucci's, or collect Hueblers, he is still a collector. Being a positive influence to collectors is very big.
The big killer and its been a long time problem are the shenanigans that go on with sellers. Paperwork that gets "lost", or the cue doesn't match the LOA. People spending big money don't like to look stupid. When untrustworthy things are allowed, and they have been allowed by many people that have been considered custodians of the industry, it makes all of us look bad. Sellers with absolutely ZERO knowledge claiming to be dealers, it's a joke. Using AI to hide your ignorance in a cue write up... you cannot make this up.
At the show I bought up a cue and collector registry, where you could join, get your cues registered, and if you sold a cue, the cue could be moved to the new owner with all documentations never to be lost or misplaced. It's a little more in-depth than that simple explanation, but it's the smart thing to do.
Joe
exactly. not sure why some still think that custom cues from well-established cuemakers think that the cues would play differently or look better than the high-end or even mid-tier production cue. it's not like it's a hidden secret or had that secret recipe of making cues. that kind of stuff is now long gone and there is no more monopoly in terms of cue-making in general. what people pay for with regards to the high-end customs has to do more of a prestige of owning a cue from a certain cuemaker, not because he/they are the only ones that can make those customs. also, I'm buying custom for the prestige, not for the belief that it would turn me magically into the greatest pool player by holding a stick and shouting SHAZAM ! a good pool cue is more than enough.
And what high-end pool cues have you owned that allowed you to build this informed opinion.
Because your hot take does not align with my lived experience....
And clearly you don't know shit about materials science.
People do not like the truth. Hell, I don't sometimes. I have been selling cues since the early 90's and I think it is a wonderful hobby. Collecting is a great hobby and IMHO it should be encouraged. BUT truth is the truth. If a custom cue could make a pro win more tournaments a year, give him more confidence gambling, the 5k. would be worth the ROI. The fact is great players, play great, end of story. There is NO truer statement than it is the indian and not the arrow. To further illustrate the lack of connection between a pro player and a custom cue, show me more than 10 pros with high end custom cues. Not Mezz or Excced, I mean traditional custom cues. Again, collect cues because you love cues, that is and should be the goal. Hell, collect cues and play with some LD setup that you feel makes you play good. In fact if you believe in engineering and science I don't know how one could argue against low d technology. I do, because I am a stubborn ass and will always play with maple shafts. But I cannot formulate any more of a reason than, its what I know and like and at 60 I ain't changing. I said the same thing at 30-35 when Predators came out.
That being said, collecting is a fun hobby. No matter what you collect, cues are no different. As someone that sells collectible custom cues all I would say is if you are not collecting a specific maker, or style of cue, diversification is a great way to go. Do you have a Joe Thomas? A Dick Lanz? A Tex? A Don Gaudreau?
JV (-- Owns 4 cues
it has nothing to do with owning but I have some friends that lent me and try a few of their customs and share their perspective. I'm not as loaded as they are. I like some of them from an aesthetic standpoint. playability depends. as for material science, it's not a hidden secret as it was the time you were building your bunker. I don't have to deal with your dementia tantrum after this post.
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I understand the sentiment for staying true to old school. the main reason that I begin to acknowledge the new innovations is that I hate warping. I could not imagine myself going back to a typical maple. I could still play on it but I feel much comfortable using some LDs'. true enough, the proof is in the pudding. Pros don't parade their cues like some people here and act like they know the best.
There are 2 kinds of truth in the world, object truth and subject truth, objective truth is 1+1=2, it cannot be debated, it is truth that can be clearly demonstrated, subject truth is (insert custom cue maker here) builds the best cue, that is an opinion, it may be a well built, straight as an arrow cue that I don't like the hit, doesn't make it a bad cue, just not the right cue for me, it could be too ornate for me, is that wrong? Nope, just not for me, with millions of people playing pool with hundreds of thousands body types and as many opinions it's no wonder there are so many different opinions on what cue "hits a ton", same goes for shafts, cue tips, ect., you will know when the cue in your hands makes YOU feel like it's the best cue you have ever owned, that is the cue for you, in the end that's all that really matters....
I have hit with a lot of renown cue makers' high-dollar custom cues that sold for thousands of dollars and many of them didn't play and feel the way I like. Southwest is a name that comes to mind. I have never tried a Southwest that I thought suited me better than one of my own cues.
I buy cues to play with and every cue and shaft has its own unique qualities and none of them play exactly alike, even the same models with the same specs.
The same thing goes with production cues.
As for most of the cues that I currently own, I had the chance to play with them before I bought them, so I knew I what I was getting.
I don't buy cues for looks, so fancy and ornate cues don't excite me. They look pretty and may be well-made, but they look more like something to hang on the wall rather than being a tool to use.
I am looking for a "particular" hit and feel that "resonates" with me and I immediately know if I am going to like a cue after just playing with it for a short while.
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There's a name you don't hear much unless you lived around the northwest Ohio.
Never got to meet Joe. He was at the end of his career and I was greener than a greenhorn.
Had what I thought was an appt to look at what he had for a shop and possibly buy it when I found out it got sold to another.
I still have one of his cues I was able to pick up when I lived close to Toledo.
I remember driving thru north Toledo and seeing a hall the had their sign with Joes name on it at the bottom as the house repair man.
When I went back to see if I could buy the sign and the hall was closed down and the sign was gone.
That's all I remember.....
I feel the same way, the only cue I have ever owned was like that except BeCue, I have 2 Prime II 12.0 shafts and they play exactly alike, I have the same tips on them so just to test them out I shot one shaft for about 10 minutes and then the other one, I didn't have to make any adjustments, if I pop a tip off during a tournament or can't get the tip replaced right away it's no big deal.
Some people collect dolls, cars, guns, coins......why not cues?Well done sir.
Couldn't agree with you more, I didn't grow up playing pool, for many reasons I got into it much later but I definitely have the bug now, hit and feel to the person that owns the cue is the most important thing, if your cue makes you feel comfortable I believe makes it easier to improve, if that's your goal, that is mine, I'll probably never play at a pro level but if I work at it I'll get closer than if I didn't try to improve.