Custom and High End Cues on the Decline?

Cue Alchemist said:
At the end of the day, its what your comfortable with. (Playing and paying)
We all know its complete rubbish, it doesn't take much, to play very well with any cue. You spend enough time with it. I have spent thousands,and then only 300 or so. Your 600 is more than enough.if it works for you, thats all that matters🙂
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funny thing is that I just recently bought a shaft that costs more than your average production pool cue. I love it, but is it the best shaft ever? I don't care as long as I'm shooting lights out with it.
 
Hail Mary Shot said:
funny thing is that I just recently bought a shaft that costs more than your average production pool cue. I love it, but is it the best shaft ever? I don't care as long as I'm shooting lights out with it.
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Let's say you paid $1000 for your shaft, in 1 year that is less than $100 a month, in 10 years it's less than $10, if it's a CF shaft it's not unreasonable to expect it to last 10 years, it's not what it COST you but the value you receive for what you paid, if you love the shaft and it helps you play your best pool I say it's worth it 👌
 
SSP said:
I don't think it's the same, an original Van Gogh painting is valuable because of who painted it, you could think the painting is horrible but it would still be worth a lot of money, there was a day when some production cues were poorly made and some still are but now there are a lot of production cues makers that are producing great cues, modern tools and technology make it easier to produce quality great playing cues, do they hold the value of a custom cue? Probably not, but if your goal is to own a great hitting cue that doesn't cost big money and have a long wait time to get then there are far more options today than in the past.
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I asked this question is how much a well-known custom cue command a price at a highend auction? is there a priceless piece like any other art piece? and which buyers are there aside from the typical custom cue collectors? I'm really surprised with most of the production cues nowadays than it was when I stopped playing more than 10 years ago. typical production back then were poor to average and with poorly made graphics or decals. nowadays, I even see way cheaper cues that are better than your $200 production cues from way back. not sure if it has to do with the pool market now having more people playing pool for that. quality has really improved a lot since I came back to playing and I appreciate the game even more now.
 
Hail Mary Shot said:
Pros don't parade their cues like some people here and act like they know the best.
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If I were given cues as part of a sponsorship deal I would sing their praises to the high heavens... as long as the cues weren't complete garbage.

Most mid tier and up production brand cues will do anything and everything you could ever ask from them. That said it's nice to have a custom that plays as good as it looks. Over the years I've bought two Diveneys. One for my wife and one for me. He's about an hour away, so pretty local. Pat is a great guy and there's something really cool about going to the cuemaker's shop and taking in the atmosphere and ogling at their equipment, stock and in process cues. You can't get that from a production outfit unless you lived nearby and could do a tour... of course then they are your local cuemaker even if they ship out to the world.
 
closest one I have is I have to take an hour boat ride. the other one is an 8 hour drive and one more from overseas. I'm already in talks with 2 of them. one of which I'm waiting after I gave what materials I want for the cue. from those 3, I could buy a few right now from their inventory but wanted to try something unique as per my specifications. nothing too flashy but the wood selection are bit on the denser side.
 
I love the varied responses in this thread. Some strong feelings out there. The real history is here in the forum. I really hope those that have joined (and even returned to playing after decades) later on don’t feel like you missed anything. You haven’t. You can love playing pool or any other hobby and not spend unreasonable amounts of money or invest excessive amounts of time playing/reading about what other people are doing, unless that is what YOU want to do. As for me, I am already over buying a custom built from anyone, the experience has been disappointing and I found that there are plenty of items that can be picked up and with a little touch up play well enough for my needs. For the calcified players and forum contributors keep making posts, to all others still on their way to living on a fixed income or not having to significantly cut down your table time due to age/health reason keep on breaking and running them tables even if just at home 😀👍😂
 
boogieman said:
Most mid tier and up production brand cues will do anything and everything you could ever ask from them. That said it's nice to have a custom that plays as good as it looks. Over the years I've bought two Diveneys. One for my wife and one for me. He's about an hour away, so pretty local. Pat is a great guy and there's something really cool about going to the cuemaker's shop and taking in the atmosphere and ogling at their equipment, stock and in process cues. You can't get that from a production outfit unless you lived nearby and could do a tour... of course then they are your local cuemaker even if they ship out to the world.
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The cue maker should be capable of wearing many hats and should understand many see him as a sort of wizard. If creative enough, an artist. I admire those that tried and failed at something until they produced something that they could be proud of. That said, as I stated in my other post, I gave the custom cue path a go and the experience was lacking. I have a project cue and a couple of solid players, so I am good for now. Once my next kielwood shaft is finished, I am just going to get back to a rack or 12 a day.
 
Custom or built from a custom shop CAN not be more expensive than a production cue. Price out a Cuetec or Predator with 2 shafts, with their premium models, it is easy to get to $1500-2k. I did this and ended up with a Merry Widow from SugarTree for less with 2 shafts.
 
tableroll said:
I think most pool players today realize that the cue is not what makes a player, it is the stroke. Collectors still value high priced cues. A Szamboti or a McDermott with the same weight, same shaft, same tip. Does it make a difference other than in ones mind?
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I used to think that too. On my home table (in the basement), I play with McDermotts with the higher-end McDermott shafts. I've always liked McDermotts. Every once in a while, though, I'll bring down a Gus to play with. I play noticeable better with my Gus. I can't explain why, but it's not in my head. The Gus just "plays better". I'd even say "much better".
 
fjk said:
I used to think that too. On my home table (in the basement), I play with McDermotts with the higher-end McDermott shafts. I've always liked McDermotts. Every once in a while, though, I'll bring down a Gus to play with. I play noticeable better with my Gus. I can't explain why, but it's not in my head. The Gus just "plays better". I'd even say "much better".
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Technically it's a melding of 2 systems - cue and shooter. It's a 'loose fit', dynamic arrangement where there's bound to be resonance and conflict. Motts and Bottis...
 
So one aspect of custom cues that we have sort of glossed over is these cues are not only functional pieces of art but many of them have incredible histories/stories that take them to another level.

Case in point, I have a 73 Szamboti barbell cue that is in its own right a stunning player that has incredible feel and hit transmission. The shaft is also some of the finest maple and is in its own right an incredible example of shaft building.

But what takes this cue from masterpiece to legendary is its history. This cue was a custom order for a Rhode Island gambler whose name, I shit you not was Pawtucket Fat's.

Fats ran into two Colorado road players doing a East Coast swing and had been on the road playing for three months at that point. Fats proceeded to loose game after game to said Co. Hustlers and after being busted had to give up his cue as collateral on money he owed. The road players gave him two days to pay up and get his cue back but they never heard from him again and they had to move on.

The cue came back to Colorado where the road player kept it for a year before selling it to a local player
That local player used it for a couple of years and then put it in their safe where it remained until after their death where it was sold to me by their kids.

I love this cue, looks amazing, plays incredible but more than that it has a history that I'm now the keeper of and hopefully become part of.

This is what I enjoy about all my high-end cues that you not going to get in your new predator/becues/Mezz-a -mijiggy. These cues have no soul, maybe someday, but not now.

I've come to the conclusion that humans have the ability to embue objects with echoes of our feelings, emotions, maybe even pieces of our psyches. But when I use the Szamboti I can feel the history, same as my 72 Bushka and my 75 Joss West. These cues speak to me, they tell me when I'm shooting good or if I'm a fucking embarrassment and please stop using them and switch to a house cue.
 
JohnnyOzone said:
And.....Government was WAY smaller. THAT is the difference
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Probably not that much to do with it although I don't think taxpayers $$$ was being sent all over the world, not to mention, I wouldn't bet that half the population didnt pay taxes like now. Just outright theft from our entire g o v

You add in a cellphone plan, internet, cable, going out for dinner, fast food, computers, gaming systems, etc, etc and it's no surprise that people can't afford what their parents did. Eliminate all that shit and almost anybody could afford the same.
 
classiccues said:
People do not like the truth. Hell, I don't sometimes. I have been selling cues since the early 90's and I think it is a wonderful hobby. Collecting is a great hobby and IMHO it should be encouraged. BUT truth is the truth. If a custom cue could make a pro win more tournaments a year, give him more confidence gambling, the 5k. would be worth the ROI. The fact is great players, play great, end of story. There is NO truer statement than it is the indian and not the arrow. To further illustrate the lack of connection between a pro player and a custom cue, show me more than 10 pros with high end custom cues. Not Mezz or Excced, I mean traditional custom cues. Again, collect cues because you love cues, that is and should be the goal. Hell, collect cues and play with some LD setup that you feel makes you play good. In fact if you believe in engineering and science I don't know how one could argue against low d technology. I do, because I am a stubborn ass and will always play with maple shafts. But I cannot formulate any more of a reason than, its what I know and like and at 60 I ain't changing. I said the same thing at 30-35 when Predators came out.
That being said, collecting is a fun hobby. No matter what you collect, cues are no different. As someone that sells collectible custom cues all I would say is if you are not collecting a specific maker, or style of cue, diversification is a great way to go. Do you have a Joe Thomas? A Dick Lanz? A Tex? A Don Gaudreau?

JV (-- Owns 4 cues
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If you diversify in cues nobody has ever heard of, the only thing you're doing is spreading out your losses over those 4 cues.
 
SSP said:
Some people collect dolls, cars, guns, coins......why not cues?
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Because for the most part, cues lose $$$ the second they are bought, just like most cars and everything else.

It's fine if you don't care about $$$ but absolutely ignorant if you're not selecting from a very few cues and makers and I mean very very few.

Also, everybody thinks when their maker dies the price will go up, this is so wrong its almost laughable.
 
SSP said:
Let's say you paid $1000 for your shaft, in 1 year that is less than $100 a month, in 10 years it's less than $10, if it's a CF shaft it's not unreasonable to expect it to last 10 years, it's not what it COST you but the value you receive for what you paid, if you love the shaft and it helps you play your best pool I say it's worth it 👌
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A bunch of us have wood shafts that are over 30, 40, 50 years old, I would hope carbon fiber would last 10 years, what would happen to it?
 
MIROPHAN said:
Custom or built from a custom shop CAN not be more expensive than a production cue. Price out a Cuetec or Predator with 2 shafts, with their premium models, it is easy to get to $1500-2k. I did this and ended up with a Merry Widow from SugarTree for less with 2 shafts.
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I spent 8k on 4 forearms built by a deceased high-end maker and then gave 2 of them to the builder that will build the cues, so in essence 4k per forearm.
 
jasonlaus said:
If you diversify in cues nobody has ever heard of, the only thing you're doing is spreading out your losses over those 4 cues.
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You are not collecting, you are investing. Very short term as well. These are two very different things. I have news for you; there is going to be a time where many big names are going to be in that pile if collecting is strictly turned into speculative investment.

Collecting because you love something is very different than collecting to try not to lose money. There are no guarantees for the latter either.

JV
 
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