Have you played with a hybrid shaft yet??

[Mensabum]

I heard about these shafts on AZ and had to know more bcuz all I heard were good things. Couldn't understand why more players weren't using them.
I found and bought 2 shafts, one from Jaden, well known AZ member, the other from Vince Sangmeister, formerly of Black Boar. You may have read my comments about Vince's Shafts on other threads.
Both shafts played very well. I was quite surprised!! I'm not a big fan of CF and I may have secretly been hoping these hybrids wouldn't perform. Made me rethink my position on CF and shafts in general.
Imo, Vince's shaft played better than Jaden's, but Jaden's played well and was less expensive, although I did have to send my own own shaft to him for modification, so it balances out.
Jaden has been making these for quite some time and here's what I don't understand. As well as both of these shafts played, I can't help but wonder why they aren't in half the cue cases out there??
The shaft Vince made for me was the nuts!! This thing is a stone cold killer. It has the feedback I demand, consistent hit, miniscule deflection and there's no loss of power or CF noise on contact w/CB.
The CF section is longer than Jaden's, and Vince adds some goodies inside to improve the hit. Dampers, a proprietary ferrule material and ask him about the foam. All of this makes the front end of the shaft about as light as it can be. Just point and shoot. Jaden's shaft was also on the low end for deflection. Practically unnoticeable during normal play.
These guys are a couple of mad geniuses!! Thinking of ways to innovate and make this sport better.
I wouldn't hesitate to shoot with either shaft, although Vince gets my final nod.
Check out these hybrids fellas!!! You won't be sorry!!!
Contact Vince @ 610-605-7318.
Contact Jaden @ 480-290-0274.
Tell em who sentcha.

 

[dendweller]

I heard about these shafts on AZ and had to know more bcuz all I heard were good things. Couldn't understand why more players weren't using them.
I found and bought 2 shafts, one from Jaden, well known AZ member, the other from Vince Sangmeister, formerly of Black Boar. You may have read my comments about Vince's Shafts on other threads.
Both shafts played very well. I was quite surprised!! I'm not a big fan of CF and I may have secretly been hoping these hybrids wouldn't perform. Made me rethink my position on CF and shafts in general.
Imo, Vince's shaft played better than Jaden's, but Jaden's played well and was less expensive, although I did have to send my own own shaft to him for modification, so it balances out.
Jaden has been making these for quite some time and here's what I don't understand. As well as both of these shafts played, I can't help but wonder why they aren't in half the cue cases out there??
The shaft Vince made for me was the nuts!! This thing is a stone cold killer. It has the feedback I demand, consistent hit, miniscule deflection and there's no loss of power or CF noise on contact w/CB.
The CF section is longer than Jaden's, and Vince adds some goodies inside to improve the hit. Dampers, a proprietary ferrule material and ask him about the foam. All of this makes the front end of the shaft about as light as it can be. Just point and shoot. Jaden's shaft was also on the low end for deflection. Practically unnoticeable during normal play.
These guys are a couple of mad geniuses!! Thinking of ways to innovate and make this sport better.
I wouldn't hesitate to shoot with either shaft, although Vince gets my final nod.
Check out these hybrids fellas!!! You won't be sorry!!!
Contact Vince @ 610-605-7318.
Contact Jaden @ 480-290-0274.
Tell em who sentcha.

I get that the wood is giving you feel that is missing from most cf shafts. What does the cf section give you that you don't get from an LD wood shaft, lower deflection, more power?

 

[skor]

Define Hybrid...
Because if it's a shaft that is constructed from more than one material then they are more common than you might think.

 

[dendweller]

Define Hybrid...
Because if it's a shaft that is constructed from more than one material then they are more common than you might think.

I believe he's referring to the ones that are wood from the joint to around the half way point, then cf to the tip.

 

[RunEmOut08]

I spent an hour with Vince on the phone a couple weeks ago. What a nice and knowledgeable guy!!

He’s currently building me a shaft to test. I have been using the Becue engage 11.8 for the last couple of years and although I feel like that CF shaft has the best feel of the ones on the market, it does not feel like a wood shaft.

Really looking forward to trying out the hybrid shaft to see how it compares.

 

[bbb]

I get that the wood is giving you feel that is missing from most cf shafts. What does the cf section give you that you don't get from an LD wood shaft, lower deflection, more power?

i also was able to test a hybrid from vince
its a great shaft
better feel than my cf shaft and excellent energy transfer
and low deflection and sounds better
would recommend it
to answer you @dendweller
the shaft from vince compared to first generation hsunami and OB low deflection wood shafts had much more power and i cant explain why but more feel
i havent played with those shafts in a while so i couldnt compare how they differ in deflection
thats my best recollection

 

[skor]

I believe he's referring to the ones that are wood from the joint to around the half way point, then cf to the tip.

in that case, the answer is simple - They are not common because they are unnecessary.
All the claims against CF come from old players, and you know what they say - can't teach new tricks to old dogs...
Old players are not a market target, they can stick to their wooden shaft until they retire or die.
These hybrid shaft lose the main two benefits of CF shafts:
1. Consistency - in all playing conditions and between shafts
2. Durability - no dings, no warpage
If that's not important, you may as well just stick to a normal wooden shaft, LD or standard for that matter.
The argument that the CF part generates more power maybe true BUT do we really need more power? Pro events are played on new tables with new cloth and new balls, it's fast as it is and the same goes to a well maintained pool hall, don't really need more power if you got a decent stroke.
Maybe you need more power on a sticky barbox with worn dirty balls, but are people that play in these conditions will buy a custom made shaft? or even a $500 production shaft?

If you watch any pro tournament, you'll see that there is no problem, running racks, winning matches and tournaments with CF shafts.
Those who don't like them, simply never took the time to learn them and to get used to them.

These are just a momentary hype that won't last such as so many ideas that came along through the years.
I still have the original OB shaft in my storage for example....

So basically, these shafts are aimed at old dogs, same dogs that jump the kielwood wagon

 

[dendweller]

in that case, the answer is simple - They are not common because they are unnecessary.
All the claims against CF come from old players, and you know what they say - can't teach new tricks to old dogs...
Old players are not a market target, they can stick to their wooden shaft until they retire or die.
These hybrid shaft lose the main two benefits of CF shafts:
1. Consistency - in all playing conditions and between shafts
2. Durability - no dings, no warpage
If that's not important, you may as well just stick to a normal wooden shaft, LD or standard for that matter.
The argument that the CF part generates more power maybe true BUT do we really need more power? Pro events are played on new tables with new cloth and new balls, it's fast as it is and the same goes to a well maintained pool hall, don't really need more power if you got a decent stroke.
Maybe you need more power on a sticky barbox with worn dirty balls, but are people that play in these conditions will buy a custom made shaft? or even a $500 production shaft?

If you watch any pro tournament, you'll see that there is no problem, running racks, winning matches and tournaments with CF shafts.
Those who don't like them, simply never took the time to learn them and to get used to them.

These are just a momentary hype that won't last such as so many ideas that came along through the years.
I still have the original OB shaft in my storage for example....

So basically, these shafts are aimed at old dogs, same dogs that jump the kielwood wagon

Given the number of shafts you talk about owning, you kind of sound like you're trying to talk yourself out of buying one.

 

[skor]

Given the number of shafts you talk about owning, you kind of sound like you're trying to talk yourself out of buying one.

Hahaha
20 years ago I would have probably be the first in line.
I do like gear and technology but they have to make sense.
Before CF shafts and many other options came along, the Predator 314 was my choice, I have at least one shaft for every joint type I have.

CF was new to me when returning to the game after 15 years (about a year ago) and yes I was intrigued by it. I didn’t need it but wanted to try it. I tried to stay on the cheap side, just wasn’t so happy with those. I should’ve just gone with my instincts and get the top brands from the beginning, as I often say, cheap is usually more expensive.

I understand the benefits of CF and I got used to everything that others may have issues with.

I will still might buy and try new things when time and money allow it but the product have to make sense.
These shafts make no sense! They try to bring together the benefits of wood and cf but they also bring together the flaws of both materials and I think that in this case the total flaws are exceeding the benefits. For lack of better words, I just find them silly, sorry… So NO, I don’t need to talk myself out of buying one

 

[Lowell]

in that case, the answer is simple - They are not common because they are unnecessary.
All the claims against CF come from old players, and you know what they say - can't teach new tricks to old dogs...
Old players are not a market target, they can stick to their wooden shaft until they retire or die.
These hybrid shaft lose the main two benefits of CF shafts:
1. Consistency - in all playing conditions and between shafts
2. Durability - no dings, no warpage
If that's not important, you may as well just stick to a normal wooden shaft, LD or standard for that matter.
The argument that the CF part generates more power maybe true BUT do we really need more power? Pro events are played on new tables with new cloth and new balls, it's fast as it is and the same goes to a well maintained pool hall, don't really need more power if you got a decent stroke.
Maybe you need more power on a sticky barbox with worn dirty balls, but are people that play in these conditions will buy a custom made shaft? or even a $500 production shaft?

If you watch any pro tournament, you'll see that there is no problem, running racks, winning matches and tournaments with CF shafts.
Those who don't like them, simply never took the time to learn them and to get used to them.

These are just a momentary hype that won't last such as so many ideas that came along through the years.
I still have the original OB shaft in my storage for example....

So basically, these shafts are aimed at old dogs, same dogs that jump the kielwood wagon

Among my league peers, I actually see more carbon shafts among guys aged 35 +. Probably because of more disposable income, though.

 

[bbb]

@skor
here is another perspective
yes carbon fiber has its pros you listed many of them
it also has its cons
primary or a common criticism
lack of feel
wood has its pros
primary or a common positive is feel
so a hybrid gives a nice blend of the durability and consistency (and power transfer)
of carbon from the most important front part of the shaft
and the feel from the wood in the back
also regarding do we need more power
my thoughts are
if you can swing softer which is usually more accurate to generate more distance or draw when needed compared to wood alone
isnt that better?
to me
my answer would be yes
jmho
icbw

 

[dendweller]

@skor
here is another perspective
yes carbon fiber has its pros you listed many of them
it also has its cons
primary or a common criticism
lack of feel
wood has its pros
primary or a common positive is feel
so a hybrid gives a nice blend of the durability and consistency (and power transfer)
of carbon from the most important front part of the shaft
and the feel from the wood in the back
also regarding do we need more power
my thoughts are
if you can swing softer which is usually more accurate to generate more distance or draw when needed compared to wood alone
isnt that better?
to me
my answer would be yes
jmho
icbw

I would tend to agree.
Having seen cracked and gouged cf shaft though, I don't quite know the durability is something I count on. If they do get a gouge or deep scratch, you're kind of out of luck. I've seen cracked ones and gouged ones, really was nothing you could do about it.

 

[skor]

@skor
here is another perspective
yes carbon fiber has its pros you listed many of them
it also has its cons
primary or a common criticism
lack of feel
wood has its pros
primary or a common positive is feel
so a hybrid gives a nice blend of the durability and consistency (and power transfer)
of carbon from the most important front part of the shaft
and the feel from the wood in the back
also regarding do we need more power
my thoughts are
if you can swing softer which is usually more accurate to generate more distance or draw when needed compared to wood alone
isnt that better?
to me
my answer would be yes
jmho
icbw

The saying that CF lacks feel is simply wrong!
It just feels different and you need to learn it and get used to it.
Every shaft, every butt, every tip all feel different.
Pros used hard tip on wood to get more power, now they use soft tip on CF to reduce power and get more control.
Bottom line, you won't hear one pro talking about power, you'll hear "consistency and durability" that's what's important, everything else you get used to.

 

[jalapus logan]

@skor
here is another perspective
yes carbon fiber has its pros you listed many of them
it also has its cons
primary or a common criticism
lack of feel
wood has its pros
primary or a common positive is feel
so a hybrid gives a nice blend of the durability and consistency (and power transfer)
of carbon from the most important front part of the shaft
and the feel from the wood in the back
also regarding do we need more power
my thoughts are
if you can swing softer which is usually more accurate to generate more distance or draw when needed compared to wood alone
isnt that better?
to me
my answer would be yes
jmho
icbw

I played with carbon fiber for the first time at last week's BCAPL tournament in Vegas. It was my perception that maybe carbon fiber produced more drawing power, but I can't say for sure, maybe it was the playing conditions? But it sounds like you think this is the case, yes?

 

[jalapus logan]

The saying that CF lacks feel is simply wrong!
It just feels different and you need to learn it and get used to it.
Every shaft, every butt, every tip all feel different.
Pros used hard tip on wood to get more power, now they use soft tip on CF to reduce power and get more control.
Bottom line, you won't hear one pro talking about power, you'll hear "consistency and durability" that's what's important, everything else you get used to.

I'll be honest, I didn't need really any adjustment time at all to play with the carbon fiber. Just screw the cue together and play. I was a bit surprised.