Double Hit or Not? You Make the Call.

[skor]

I wouldn't trust a foul called on me with such "hearsay" evidence. I say no foul unless it's obvious, usually by the CB taking an obvious detour from its normal path.

pj
chgo

If there is an official referee or someone that both sides agree on, then his call is final whether he gets it right or wrong

 

[skor]

Ref can't interject on an impending foul, so how is he supposed to get ideal viewing?

Not sure what you mean

 

[Patrick Johnson]

... his call is final whether he gets it right or wrong

Yeah, that's my problem with it.

pj
chgo

 

[skor]

Yeah, that's my problem with it.

pj
chgo

Referees gets it wrong sometimes in all sports, it part of the sport.
I rather have a referee getting it wrong than starting a fight with some a-hole

 

[dr_dave]

I think that the best way to call this shot as a referee is not to rely just on eyesight but also listen to the shot, usually you will hear a double hit in such a situation.

Sound is not a reliable indicator of a double-hit foul. See the examples in the videos here:

sound is not a good indicator of a foul​

 

[dr_dave]

I rather have a referee getting it wrong than starting a fight with some a-hole

With clear video evidence, there are no fights (or even discussion). The call is usually totally obvious. If not, the benefit of the doubt goes to the shooter (no foul).

 

[Patrick Johnson]

Referees gets it wrong sometimes in all sports, it part of the sport.

We don't have to make it so likely to get wrong.

pj
chgo

 

[GideonF]

Referees gets it wrong sometimes in all sports, it part of the sport.
I rather have a referee getting it wrong than starting a fight with some a-hole

I agree with this. Many people I know (myself included) call someone to watch our own shots when it is going to be close.

Sometimes the person you ask gets it wrong. It happens sometimes and it annoys me when the call is wrong, but I’d rather take the chance of a wrong call by a neutral party than have an argument or have my opponent think I cheated if I don’t call a ref and don’t think it’s a foul when my opponent does.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

I agree with this. Many people I know (myself included) call someone to watch our own shots when it is going to be close.

Sometimes the person you ask gets it wrong. It happens sometimes and it annoys me when the call is wrong, but I’d rather take the chance of a wrong call by a neutral party than have an argument or have my opponent think I cheated if I don’t call a ref and don’t think it’s a foul when my opponent does.

I don't think anybody disagrees. Only that the referee should have obvious/verifiable evidence.

pj
chgo

 

[maha]

if its going to that close that no one can see whether its a foul or not then the shot should not allowed to be taken.

and the if in doubt it goes to the shooter. who is in doubt. the opponent says its not a good hit. so the shooter says it is.
so is that the doubt. if so the shooter determines all close calls. is that fair when no ref..

 

[straightline]

Not sure what you mean

Perpendicular to the action in question; not just standing around with an eye on the balls.

 

[skor]

Perpendicular to the action in question; not just standing around with an eye on the balls.

of course I'm talking about someone who is called to look over the shot and just someone from the crowed

 

[Hail Mary Shot]

So you think it is a good idea that a bunch of apa players are now going to be filming and analyzing every shot so they don't get cheated?

See, bringing this technology into the game is going to make a slow, unwatchable game even slower. If you want to advocate for slow-mo video, you have to do it like football. The ref calls the shot fair or foul, either player can use their timeout to challenge and go to video. Otherwise there will be matches that have players who will want to check most shots.

As far as ignorance goes, more knowledge doesn't necessarily fix that, it is about figuring out how to use that knowledge...

You'll make Earl extremely happy.

 

[skor]

Sound is not a reliable indicator of a double-hit foul. See the examples in the videos here:

sound is not a good indicator of a foul​

of course you need to combine both.n the right video, I guessed right that the third is a foul but missed the first one but in that case the movement forward is a dead giveaway and no nee for sound.
When elevated it's easier to use your ears such as in the shot that started this thread.
On the left video, a misscue is not a foul unless the player is using it to jump

 

[gregcantrall]

It's easy to mistake the flam (drummer term for that double impact sound) for a double hit. It could just be the rapid succession of the initial stroke impact and the sound of ball collision.

I have explained that on more than one occasion. In competition I have requested a ref to watch the hit many times. In league play I request a member of the other team.
Reminds me of Dirty Harry, "was that one click or two?" Wait with Dirty Harry the punch line was, "Do You fell lucky?" Sometimes the umpire is open to appeal. A simple explanation of why I respectfully disagree, he still gets the final call. Sometimes I still get the wrong call. Just like baseball, "there's no crying in pool."
So yeah a double hit would provide 3 clicks, not 2.
As a catcher in Little League baseball, I developed a close relationship with the umpire.
We had intimate time together. At 8 years old I had one umpire that would grab the straps at their cross in the back and pull me back from the plate. Just a little. Ooops there I go Ramblin again. Think it's time for

So yeah develop relationships for credibility er uh credit. I would softly tell the umpire when they missed a call on the strike or ball. We all miss a call on occasion.
"Once it's missed, oh well. Don't try to make it right with a wrong call that goes the other way." Well that was my silent thoudht.And uh prayer. bigger things require prayer anyways.

 

[Hail Mary Shot]

Referees gets it wrong sometimes in all sports, it part of the sport.
I rather have a referee getting it wrong than starting a fight with some a-hole

Agree with having a reliable ref. Last thing that you want is someone calling a foul on you just because he thought that it was impossible to make a shot with certain English applied. Yeah, there are people out there that thinks they know alot about pool.

 

[straightline]

of course I'm talking about someone who is called to look over the shot and just someone from the crowed

I mean specifically the ref. You know how in Pinoy action the table guys are ready to mark anything for reset. Refs need to be on the - THAT ball. Have a phone in position like Dr. Dave (good idea ) if appropriate. If people need to be called over - and there's a million guys there who at least believe they can play; <the qualified among them should be on call to make the call> . Matter of fact they should all be tested and have to qualify for a competition license.

 

[Mensabum]

I don't think this is clear at all based on the limited camera angle (where the tip is slightly behind the CB) and the limited zoom, resolution, and clarity of the image.



It is most certainly possible, as was the case with the shot in the video. If the cue were jacked up more, it would have been a lot less close.

FYI, I show many techniques for avoiding possible double hits like this on the double hit resource page. This video shows 10 ways to do it:

Thank ya Doc!!

 

[SBC]

Fouls were never meant to be called using super slow motion.

Jacked up 45 degrees....no foul unless it is a clear double hit or draws back to the tip.

Anybody calls this a foul while we are gambling....there will be problems.

 

[Mensabum]

Wow, the replies in this thread, illustrate exactly why I don’t let people call fouls. Most people have no idea.

And why I never played tournaments.