I'm really curious if the same results would come from a 12.9 revo compared to a 12.9 Rhino. But I'm not curious enough to buy them and send them to you.
How do LOW-COST CARBON FIBER SHAFTS Perform Compared to the Best?
- Thread starter dr_dave
- Start date
If your curiosity level increases, let me know. Or if you know people who have those cues, anybody can easily do the tests on their own using the simple and reliable procedures in the video.
KingSamurai
Member
Dave, it seems that there were more significant performance differences between the higher cost shafts such as Revo, Whyte carbon, J. flowers, etc
Aside from Revo, it does seem the lower cost shafts tested outperform several of the higher cost shaft brands if you include results from both videos.
Is that a valid conclusion? I know you mentioned that there were some cloth differences that have impacted the results.
Aside from Revo, it does seem the lower cost shafts tested outperform several of the higher cost shaft brands if you include results from both videos.
Is that a valid conclusion? I know you mentioned that there were some cloth differences that have impacted the results.
Paul_#_
Well-known member
You are referring to these two sets of results shown below.
I await Dave's answer. I find it hard to believe that some of the higher-cost shafts performed worse than the cheap CF shafts (the 11.8mm Whyte Triple Sixty TS1 worse than the 12.5mm WSC Jungle, for example). I suspect there are other issues at play and its more that all these shafts were not significantly different from each other.
It is alarming enough if all these shafts have no significant differences among them in deflection. That means that unknowns and maybe a little clueless CRBN and WSC Jungle are as good as the expensive shafts touting low deflection. If so, almost all carbon-fiber manufacturers are in on what it takes to make low-deflection shafts and Predator's reign as the shafts with the lowest deflection is over.
Interesting....and here I thought it was my lousy stroke...... Both 12.7 and 12.5 Rhino with original and aftermarket tips have done that WTF kind of miscue was that to me....similar with low left/right draw stroke.......seemes real easy to miscue....perhaps it is a great practice cue to kind of force you to stay closer to center........I like the hit with a after market tip installed....but still seems real easy to get that random miscue....I always thought it was just my lousy stroke....I never really get out and play anymore...just 20-30 minutes here and there and I leave the cue put together laying on the table........I am now curious and am going to go back to the P-314 for a while
You can trust the relative comparisons in each video, with the Revo as the commonality.
I think your conclusion is valid.
I understand the fascination with “lowest deflection” and I appreciate all of Dr Dave’s tests.
However, until and unless a zero deflection cue appears (which is likely never), a small amount of deflection difference between shafts is probably less important to most players than finish, feel and sound. It may also come second to whatever shaft comes closest to the unconscious adjustments we are already making based our prior experience.
Hopefully these cheaper CFs will be around for people to try them out. And if someone tries out a cheap one and some expensive ones and sees no discernable difference, then so much the better.
However, until and unless a zero deflection cue appears (which is likely never), a small amount of deflection difference between shafts is probably less important to most players than finish, feel and sound. It may also come second to whatever shaft comes closest to the unconscious adjustments we are already making based our prior experience.
Hopefully these cheaper CFs will be around for people to try them out. And if someone tries out a cheap one and some expensive ones and sees no discernable difference, then so much the better.
I think it is fair to subtract 0.3 from the slow-speed numbers and 0.4 from the fast-speed numbers in the first video based on the Revo numbers in both videos. The natural pivot length numbers don’t need adjustment based on the short distance and very fast sleed (so cloth is not a factor).
Dr Dave = great scientific information about the physics of the game and equipment… that will completely fuck up your game if you start thinking about it. Jk Dave you’re great. Just don’t review my shaft I don’t wanna know lol
This was a great video and definitely long overdue! I have OKHealing carbon shafts as well as some of the high end ones. After putting some Thoroughbred Ms on all the shafts, they all played similar to me.
I definitely agree. I was thinking myself when i bought the Rhino WTH is wrong with this shaft. i could fire balls in at times then at other times the deflection was like a front heavy cue with a Ivory ferrule times 2. I changed the tip to a ultraskin fire medium and it made a big difference. For those that was wondering about the sound etc. of the Rhino. Here is my video of why i switched to a Raven. Sound #1 cant take that hollow ting sound. Balance point #2 there is absolutely no weight in about 22 inches of the front of the shaft. The tip on the Raven definitely isnt the best either. The one great thing about the Time crystal tip is it holds chalk really really well.
For me this was an eye opening informative video. Thank you DR Dave, you do so much for us, and it is greatly appreciated. First observation for me was, there just doesn't appear to be that big of a difference on softer hits. Next the tip effect. I only have experience with a Jacoby V3 12.7mm, and about 4 Rhino shafts, 3 regular and one Must, all 12.5mm. I purchased the Must, not because of it's touted lower deflection, but because of it's more forward weight balance, that it has.
This tip effect is eye opening, and explains what I have experienced at times, with all my carbon shafts and why I am not comfortable using them full time. For me I think it is stroke related also as at times in practice I shoot them great, while at other times in practice when I am struggling with getting a straight stroke, I occasionally will get a ball that takes off at an unexpected angle and I take the shaft off and go back to my trusted wood shafts.
Along with this I replaced the tips on my Rhino shafts to softer ones, and on the Must shaft, went to a really soft tip, Ultraskin Pro. That tip really mutes the hit and I was considering on changing it anyway, so I'm going to cut it off today and put on a harder one to try
My wife uses the Rhino on her Schon and loves it, for it's deflection no, strictly because of its smoothness. She uses very little left right english.
I’m glad you liked the video. I prefer harder tips for all the reasons here:
I don’t care much about the sound or “feel” of the hit. I care only that the CB goes where I want with the speed and spin I want.